Clutchy

To be fair, not the picture I weighed on, id say 20% more when i got weighed but it definitely isn't what i call a proper load Goes to show how little the new transits can take once you add a couple of tool boxes and an arb back Does anyone know if having a trailer weighs the van down more? Guessing only by 50kg or so

Something like this:

This was a typical, and what I assumed was an underweight load of ash chip, just me in the van and no tools. Came in at 4,220kg 2017 transit MWB tipper single cab, ply and steel frame 'arb back' The older transit (2008) we had with a similar size load from same job was 3,660kg With the up to 30% overweight just being a fine which I'd be happy to pay, is the 30% calculated on pay load or on the 3.5t weight? As in could you weigh 4,550kg before risking court/points? Guessing its payload 😞

Take them to court, don't act on emotions. It will feel good for maybe 2 hours and you'll still be down money. Or they do pay you after and you have to clean it up

If it was a bad idea in your 20's its a terrible one in your 40's

You mean you don't take the chipper up with you?

"You get what you get" - ok why? Why can't we challenge the norm? Comparison of other trades is very relevant and rather than the mindset of well go do that then, I'd like to think, probably in vein that we could maybe try and do something so that we can just pay people in the industry correctly for the skill, risk and hard work involved.

Perhaps I'm just too young and naïve, but I hate the idea of 'that's how its always been so we will always do it that way'

I wish I held out on buying another chipper! Just seen a 6inch 1 year old timberwolf go for 12k, 140hrs

It really is, as an employee or owner, this game is a hell of a lot of effort compared to others for the same money. Someone who mastics windows who I mewp for has his staff on £220 a day, 6 hr days. My breezy 40k office job I had before starting this business was a a lot easier in comparison. Not to mention we are all swapping money for long term damage to our bodies. Don't tell me it doesn't damage your body, bored of hearing that inaccurate argument. There is no denying that we swap low wages (if you're not an owner) in exchange for long term damage, compared to other industries. And it most definitely is life and death stuff. Working at height in any industry gets you a big bump in pay just because a lot of people are scared of heights and that's before you add in the fact that we are often secured to unknown weight bearing structures, wielding chainsaws and heavy plant!

Are you having a laugh! God forbid someone, who as you say are already charging below market rate increases their prices by 30%, which alone would allow them to work less. This isn't exactly an easy job

I'm not sure but I was thinking with a scenario of someone on here realises they're charging a fair bit under market rate (location shouldn't make more than 10-15% difference) and may then be inclined to up their prices in line. I don't think talking about it can make it worse

Everyone is so coy when it comes to pricing on here. Why not just say, doesn't have to be exact. You're not going to be undercut just because you've disclosed your numbers. The more we talk numbers the better it is for the industry - I think

£750 + VAT min, £900 + VAT target, £1,200 + VAT = we've had a very good day.

Interesting. I am a small business? I have full control over everything you've outlined above, I'm not knocking small businesses. In fact, I've probably spent 9 hours on the phone this month already, for FREE helping other tree firms where I can. Being small doesn't mean you need to only do domestic or only charge small amounts. Charging more reduces stress so I really don't get what you mean. I wouldn't advise anyone to go big in this industry, competing against too many people who run their tree business as a hobby/charity. I do recommend however, getting as much as you can per day with 1 or 2 gangs and using the profits to buy commercial property or other slow money producing assets so you don't need to climb trees at 70!

Disagree, finance gets a lot of hate and more so now but if you can't meet you finance payments which lets be honest are a small portion of total running costs then your business is doomed anyway, for example wages are 12k a month, finance on 135k of mixed kit is 2.6k a month. In 5 years it will be all mine outright at probably 50% of this value, recently much higher. So the next lot of finance I can either drop a bigger deposit or finance the lot and keep the capital in the company to buy more money producing assets/things Finance also gives you nice consistent monthly out goings and therefore easier to keep an eye on your monthly/daily running costs. Can even chop it in every 3 years for warranty on the kit. However now that interest rates have increased so much it makes it less attractive of a full solution, glory days over

There does seem to be more kit going up for sale, I can't tell if its just my head trying to connect the dots where there aren't any but certainly seems so. Anyone on here who went through the 2008 recession? What did you or the company you worked for do differently to survive?

Interesting, its probably generic advice that he is giving out to less risky industries. Given the discussion thus far and ignoring the accountant for a minute, are you happy taking direct financial risk to your personal assets?

Couldn't of said that better. 100%

Or fail to meet contractual obligations, there are lots of situations where it is nice to know you can keep your family home and other personal assets totally separate from your risky business. You say 'only' real advantage as if its not a HUGE advantage

Somewhat agree if you're a biz with no aspirations to grow. The tax benefits come down the line, in the event you sell the business and get to enjoy entrepreneurs relief (one of the best tax reliefs there is) Limited liability is enough of a benefit to out weigh being a sole trader in this risky industry alone. Bad things can and do happen as well know

Mostly the limited liability and for divs. If you're a one man band, with a a couple of subbies. You drop a tree on a car or house for example and the insurance company wiggle out of it (read an insurance policy in detail, theres a lot of ways they can get out of paying) for example you didn't realise there was a height limitation on your policy or any other nuance (subbie didn't have the ticket he swore he did etc). Client sues you for £35k. Your business doesn't have £35k, well, a charge might be placed on your family home, savings can be stripped etc where as with a limited company, they can only take whats in the company. Note that limited liability has no reference to legal liability. If you are grossly negligent and someone gets killed, you may go to prison either way. A few more plus' below You are protected by limited liability which means only money you choose to put into the company, and money that is made by the company is at risk of loss Limited companies often benefit from the reputation of being less risky to work with or buy from than sole traders as many customers feel there are more reliable recourses if they are dissatisfied with a product or service, so you may be able to grow your business faster and easier than as a sole trader Your company name is legally protected and cannot be used by another business You have increased chances of securing finance from investors and lenders as a limited company compared to sole traders As a shareholder of your limited company, you are entitled to receive dividends. This means you can receive up to £2,000 in dividends tax-free and all dividends received in addition to this threshold is taxed at a lower rate than income tax. There are increased tax planning opportunities including re-investing profits into the business to reduce corporation tax, making family members shareholders to issue dividends and reducing National Insurance contributions by paying less salary and more dividends.

Is anyone actually going to explain why it is beneficial to be a sole trader?

Agreed, trees fall down the priority list much quicker with domestics vs commercial

Even if you worked 3 days a week it still makes sense to limit your liability and have a more tax efficient way of paying yourself Still yet to hear the reasoning for being a sole trader Has nothing to do with turnover