Jimbo 76

James Can see you're frustrated. But some good advise already. Let me be less subtle. If in over a decade you only have CS30 and are been paid less than minimum wage doing operations you're not qualified to do, you're working for the wrong people. Find a good company that has a clear progression path for its employees. Lots on here maybe adjust the tone of 'life's unfair' and ask for help. I'm sure the arb lads on here can give you more specific advise. Good luck. James.

Mr Sword My point is about statistics. And the facts. In statistics the use of the the word sequential is different from your example. In simplest terms think of a coin being repeatedly tossed. Each action is repetitive and sequential in normal parlance. But not view statistically as sequential. Hence the odds of an outcome are not reliant on previous actions or 'sequential' MR Sword I'm tired and normally would be more polite. But statically your talking bollocks! Trust me take a moment and read about stats. Think about your assertion if you were correct the vast majority of accidents would occur after experience was gained. Cheers, James.

Mr Sword, It is you that doesn't understand statistics and the 'laws'! You are assuming work on is each day is sequential and thus probabilities accumulative. It's not the case each day's work should be thought as an independent action. Cheers, James.

Stephen and Luftwaffe Walk to site can be tough. The job is tough. But some of us do enjoy it! I've always said the apprenticeship can be tough...i.e chestnut copice etc. But to answer your questions directly. My furthest drive last year was 45min. But up on road at 6am helps especially in south east. Most around 30min. We specialise in SSSi sites. Day rates on our team are £150-£180 for basic felling except our apprentice who is now on £100. Significantly more for windblown and emergency work o.e on a pipeline we help manage. Also and here is the real money point. We buy timber standing. Fell, forward and sell. And this is where the real money can be. We the work approximately 50/50 day rate and standing and this helps the cash flow. It's not for all there is a degree of vocation. But I think most of us in this industry don't do it because it's the most money we could make. Cheers, James.

Stephen, I guess many years ago, as per your previous posts, you decided forestry was not for you and diversified into arb and gardening. But really not sure... I think we just differ. I believe forestry hand cutting can provide a good living and you don't. Cheers, James.

I give up! Stephen a few birch twigs a chipper and a guy with blower is NOT forestry hand cutting. Also so many historical references and a vehicle with tree surgery says it all. A FULL time hand cutter is a specialist job In answer to the OP you can make a good living. Enjoy the work and all the best. Cheers, James.

Come on Stephen Christmas is over no need to be a Grinch all year..... Correct me if I'm wrong but from your other posts and this your not a full time specialist cutter. If you are you can make a decent living working 5 days a week. And I get to wear £300 quid boots, trousers and a rediculously over priced Protos lid... Just because I like the colours ! Cheers, James.

Mr Squirrel, Have you tried approaching your local National Trust estate or Woodland Trust site manager? If you want to get into big soft wood you will have to buy the timber standing and all the associated risk and management. But although both these have "ticketed" employees they don't do wind blown and normally call in assistance. It's not the best soft wood it's good experience with little outlay. Just an idea. Cheers, James.

Cutting can make a good living. But now you're not in completion with harvesters. You bring a different skill set that allows you to work alongside or infront and between you get the job done. A harvester can't do a windblown site and I can't cut as fast as one. Also there is a degree of vocation about cutting full time. As I've said before the apprenticeship can be hard and long but once you move past chestnut copice etc it can be rewarding and you most certainly won't be the worst paid on site quite the reverse. But you do need all the skills and tickets. I realise these are not necessarily the same. I cut with a guy who has cut for 30 year plus and can do any tree but is stuck on 150 as he refuses to get more tickets. Cheers, James.

Matty Can't tell you what to charge. But £100 is what our apprentice is paid. Unlike other jobs a day rate may vary depending on the type of work i.e windfelled. Also as you become more proficient you will be happy indeed wish to be paid on a piece rate. To many variables to give a once size fits all answer. Good luck, James.

It's not all over! We are a dying breed but there is a good living to be made. The apprenticeship can be harsh and long and you will have to spend time learning the trade but what jobs don't you have too. I'll never do chestnut copice again! We are a small team and have spent a lot of time getting pre approved contractor status for many of the usual suspects but now are fortunate to be pre booked and I work 6 days a week this time of year. Yes we have adapted and offen work alongside harvesters etc. Also no matter how skilled you are the reality is you need all your tickets especially as large trees, windfelled and assisted fell are where you can charge a premium and are individual tickets. It maybe just a box ticked but if you don't have them all you won't get on many sites now that's just the reality. So if you want it don't give up its a good way of life.....till your body gives out! Cheers, James.

Your right Richard it is just a sales pitch. So we adapt ours. We only do couple of hundred ton. But we emphasise the differences and kinda go for a Stella sales pitch "reassuringly expensive" hand cut from SSSi sites so supporting conservation etc only best species air dried to a moisture level that makes no difference etc. We find people support us because we are a small operation. And anyway I've seen Wills set up ... Nothing to be scared off!

Took mine out straight away. No way you can drive in them even in a Landy ! Had them 6 months or so very comfy and dry but not as hard wearing as my previous GTX boots. Rubber on front already peeling off but not too worried comfort and fit is excellent. Cheers James.

I can't comment on the husky comparison as I don't use that saw. But 28" light and RS chain is a good combination for us. Noticeably a step up from the 441 and that's a blinding saw. Maybe one of the lads has miss sharpened it? Or as you say is just bedding in? Cheers, James.

Rob, John who was cutting with me today and is a husky man knows how you feel.....I watched him curse like madman for about 15 min with a 661 till I relented and told him the "trick"

We run 661's principly on 28" light bars and find that works balance wise. But the reason for my post was about them flooding and the starting issues. If you don't catch them first time they can "flood" and many starts are required or letting them sit for a while as already stated. But you can "trick" any M-tronic into starting. Just kneel on body of saw, set lever to run with left hand hold throttle on full and pull cord with right hand and it will run. No waiting or frustrating yanking. Hope this helps cheers, James.

Looks interesting and wide ranging. Cheers for the heads up. James.

Guys I think you may be talking cross purposes.... Steve you don't mean you're paid £22 per cube to fell mature Oak and that's a low price. That's £26 quid or so per ton at stump! If you do please can we have a site of yours! Cheers James

Ian, When we started out we used to quote for anyone who asked. But as others have alluded to (like Kevin) This can run you ragged. We now 'pre qualify, everyone before quoting. This might sound a bit management bollocks. But it stops work time money etc been given to lost causes. Some clients are more important than others. Find out if they have the cash, why they want the job and more importantly are they the decision maker. Hope this helps James .

Brush cutter, I think the answer is he had a tractor!

No sorry Steve, fair size, base diameter about 8 foot including buttresses.

Another view

As title suggest we had to sort a veteran oak. Survived 300 odd years but not June's rain!

I think a lot of people don't realise hand cutting,as a living, it's a totally different discipline from other aspects of tree work and therefore although some skills are transferable but a totally new set are required to be successful. It's tough. You need to be physically adept to work long hours offen in tough conditions. We have very keen lads that just are not used to concentrating and working for 9 hours a day flat out. They tire make mistakes and find it even tougher. Also you need very good personal admin. And offen people are disorganised. Simple things like have premixed fuel or using shots, switching to spare chains not field sharpening. All little time savers that help and increase productivity. Knowing what a sharp chain is! Sorting out your kit at night so it's dry before you start. Strong enough to use a 60cc saw what ever your flavour, to sned and fell so your not constantly changing saws. Lots of little things add up to a big difference. And finally many of us who do it full time don't really sub out. We offen find a few good clients who pay well, do our own jobs and sell roadside direct to market or concentrate what spare time we have on better paid jobs such as wind felled. It can pay but the apprenticeship can be tough. Finally you do need a phone on you but you better be bleeding if it comes out of your pocket!

Mr squirrel, There could be a possible third way. Maybe use your experience and try some conservation work. The day rate won't be great around £150. But they will be looking for other qualities than just product production. Good site management thoughtful extraction and even desposal of brash i.e on burning platforms. Then offen as a sweetener you can buy the product at a reduced rate. Also if you do a good job you can get on preferred contractors lists and have the opportunity to go for larger contacts that may tie in with your firewood aspirations. Anyway good luck! James.