R Mac

The problem with modern saws is that like other air cooled engined machines the progress is aimed at satisfying ever stricter emissions and noise regulations. It's getting progressively harder to even maintain the power/engine capacity ratio let alone improve on it. The electronics are aimed at keeping emissions low and power up which means more complication/cost for the guy wanting to service his own equipment.

You can still get points and condensor for the Villiers engine fitted to the DD8F, service kits for the Tillotson HL30 are available but not as far as I know from Tillotson. The diaphragms in the carbs last well unless they've been left with petrol containing ethanol in the fuel tank/carb. The diaphragm in the Danarm was fine as the saw hadn't been started in maybe 10 years, I have an Echo CS-701S-VL which is a newer saw (1975). I hadn't used it for 2, maybe 3 years and it had been left with fuel in it. I went to start it a couple of months ago and it was running really badly, in fact barely running. I stripped the carb and found the diaphragm had started to almost melt and was full of pinholes. Fortunately Tillotson can still supply full and part service kits for the carb on the Echo. It a testament to the way stuff in general was built years ago, built to last and be user maintained not needing serviced by a dealer with access to engine management software and then thrown in the landfill 5 years down the line to be replaced by the latest all singing all dancing model that comes with 0.01kW more power and even more built in obsolesence.

I have no idea, sorry, not sure about electrics I really need to have the thing on the bench and kinda go from there.

Thanks guys, I've already ordered one

How do they attach to the engine, is it simply a matter of clipping to the H/T lead?

The carb cover would be almost impossible to find, they're seldom seen in photos from when the saws were new let alone today, the clutch cover should be easier. You can buy an electronic ignition module to replace the points, they're on Amazon and ebay, See Here The originals were made in Australia by a company called Atom, they still make machinery but stopped making the ignition module in 2005.

Trying to convince me to buy new kit? excellent, if my wife finds out I'll just say the devil made me do it

From what I've read around 20:1 to 25:1 on modern oils seems to work, less smoke and less unburnt oil blown from the exhaust but as good for lubricating the cylinder as older oils at 16:1. I'd err on the side of caution as I don't want to wreck it, while it's capable of running it's a saw, when it's broken it's an anchor.

With a large pinch of salt?

Tree climbing = only started, climbing = a long time so very comfortable with a prussik. Tree climbing I've only really used a split tail and blakes hitch - didn't work for me either because of the compatability between the climbing line and the split tail or because I'm too light to get it to bite, in any case it kept slipping. I switched to a prussik which was fine and although I tried a prussik with a slack tender I didn't like it. I haven't used anything other than a VT on lanyard and flipline both with a slack tender pulley with no problems. So what is it about the VT that makes it less reliable than a Distel or Knut? it seems like a very popular hitch which is strange if there are inherent problems with it, do the advantages outweigh the disadvantages?

Yeah I saw that one, as it stands I only need a chain now although there is slight damage to the recoil starter housing (may contact the seller to see if he has a spare) All the chains have are too short and I'm having difficulty figuring out what size it takes, looks bigger than 3/8. The bar is Oregon marked as 33425 and 2863N2905 but Google doesn't provide any results. I'm thinking it's probably a type 58 or type 59 which are both 0.404 pitch. There's not much point in measuring the bar groove as the 58 is 1.5mm (0.058") gauge and the 59 is 1.6mm (0.063") gauge so considering the age of the saw and the wear on the bar it could be either.

If the spark plug is dry it isn't getting fuel, try the simple things before digging deeper and making things worse. As Peatff says, take the spark plug out, inject a little petrol into the cylinder, re-fit the plug and give it a try. If the ignition system is working it should start but obviously won't run for long. In short you need spark and fuel, before you start looking deeper.

'llI definitely give both set-ups a try just as soon as I get a dry day, could take a while considering what it's been like for the past 2 weeks.

Totally agree, new paint over old and chipped paint looks like a tart-up job. The old paint will need to be stripped and the casings smoothed off, especially on the starter housing. Strangely the yellow paint has almost completely gone from the actual engine casings, the Villiers parts, yet has survived remarkably well on the rest of the saw, the Danarm parts. Sounds great by the way, loud and a bit unstable

Well after spending Saturday cleaning the fuel tank, air filter and stripping, cleaning and rebuilding the carb the new spark plug arrived today. Got it fitted and mixed up some 16:1 ready to start. First problem was fuel not being drawn down to the carb, suspected the old fuel line was loose at the carb fitting and drawing in air so replaced the fuel line. Still wouldn't draw fuel down the line so pulled the plug and injected a bit of fuel into the cylinder and she fired up. Back to the carb, fuel was leaking from the base plate so re-seated it and tried again, still no go. Pulled the carb again, stripped it, double checked the diaphragm for pinholes, looked ok so built the carb up again and re-fitted, sucked some fuel into the line and stuck it back on the carb, bingo it fired up albeit a bit smokey (as you'd expect at 16:1) Had already set the High/Low to spec and it was running quite well but nowhere near as smoothly as a modern saw. Stuck the bar on, went to start it to video it running, 1st pull it fired, 2nd pull the starter rope broke!!!!!! Happy enough though, will sort the starter cord, clean and service the bar and see if the biscuit tin full of saw chains has one to match the saw/bar. So should I completely strip and restore the saw or leave it as is, any opinions?

Did you check/clean the fuel filter? if not start there, open the fuel cap, fish out the fuel filter by hooking the fuel line with a piece of stiff wire and pulling it out through the filler neck. Wash it with clean petrol (not premix) or with carb cleaner, check that the fuel line isn't split/kinked and when you put it back in the tank make sure the filter can drop freely down to the bottom of the fuel tank. If that doesn't work I'd pull the fuel hose off the carb and spray carb cleaner into the carb fuel inlet. If none of that works you'll need to strip the carb.

I agree it isn't as fast to switch between ascend and descend as you need to bring the hitch back in close to descend. I guess that's the compromise. I'll try both set-ups again but I'm still not keen on the idea that I can be left holding with one hand above the friction hitch and one hand below before I find out that the friction hitch isn't holding and it doesn't sound like it's very fluid having to set the friction hitch before loading it every time you advance ( how do you set it before loading it, doesn't it need loaded first?)

I haven't experienced a friction hitch slip in either configuration, yet, (using the Hitch Climber) but it seems to me thinking about it that it's likely to happen as you place your weight on the hitch prior to taking in more rope during ascent. With the O Rig both hands are below the hitch holding your weight and you're coming onto the friction hitch while still holding with both hands, on the regular set-up by the time you realise the friction hitch is failing to bite you're holding on with one hand above the hitch and the other below the hitch at waist level tending the slack, either way I think there would be a bit of added pressure while it was sorted. As far as being able to reach the hitch is concerned the distance you can reach forward/above with one hand is greater than the distance you can reach with both hands together as you tend to twist sideways when reaching with one hand so even with the friction hitch in the ascending position and far enough away to allow as much rope to be taken in as possible (waist to full double hand reach) you should (maybe) still be able to reach it with one hand. Just thinking out loud here and definitely not saying you're wrong

I think I'll probably end up keeping the 'O' rig as simple as possible by just clipping the Ultra O to my main harness attachment point when I disconnect the climbing line to advance it. (after clipping in on my lanyard of course) That seems to me to be the simplest method and the one which needs the least components. That said by using an extra eye to eye section of climbing rope as suggested by Brocky I wouldn't need to unclip the small friction hitch attached to the hitch climber pulley. I would need the extra length of rope and one extra karabiner but would only need to make one movement to free the climbing line for advancing. A few different things to try and of course I would like a foot ascender, that will probably be my next piece of climbing hardware, it should make the regular Hitch Climber set up more usable for me if I employ it as you suggest. Thanks Again guys for the suggestions.

With you now, I kinda figured you meant 'friction hitch' but thanks for confirming it.

Could you explain that or post a pic as I can't visualise how that would work. As I understand it the 'O' rig is basically a loop formed from the climbing rope by passing the splice (or knot in my case) through the central attachment loop of the harness (DMM Revolver in my case) and clipping it to the friction system, (in my case a VT attached to a hitch climber using an Ultra O). With my rope running through a cambium saver, down and through my harness and up to the friction system I'm basically attached to a loop of rope which I can rotate to move the friction hitch closer or further away from myself. Surely if I make a fixed attachment between my rope and my harness I no longer have a rotatable loop or am I missing something? Above, 'Loop' rotated clockwise to bring the friction hitch closer to me Above, Loop rotated anti-clockwise to rotate the friction hitch further away from me

That's the plan, function before form

I got lucky, it was the points, had them apart last night and managed to get a small insulator/washer back in the wrong place so had constant continuity even with the points open. Tested the condensor - ok, cleaned the points like you said and checked them again with the meter - ok Put the points/condensor unit back on stuck on a spark plug and I have spark, strong and blue. Need a new plug though as the original has a crack in the insulator, I was using a different plug for testing. Thanks for the advice and encouragement

What he said

Cheers I'll give that a try, checked the magneto with a multimeter, set to 20k ohms, probe on the HT lead plug connector, probe on the cylinder head and got a reading of 3.5ohms which as far as I know is fine. Will clean/set the points and if still no go I'll check the condensor. Electrics aren't really my thing