Paul Melarange

Stubby, I suppose the point I was trying to make is it is important to find out what the clients reason is for wanting a tree removed. The reasons I can think of are: 1. Nuisance (both annoyance i.e. excessive shade, leaves, damaging a structure etc and in the legal sense) 2. In the way of something i.e. a new building or driveway 3. Suppressing a better or more important tree. 4. Risk of harm or damage from the tree or parts of the tree failing. I'm sure there are others but that will do for now. All four are perfectly valid reasons. However, the fourth (Risk) is probably one of the most misunderstood. Many people do not understand that in order for a tree to pose a significant risk there has to be a target i.e. something significant that it will hit, the size of the part that fails has to be big enough to cause harm or damage and there has to be a high likelihood of that part actually failing. Consequently, we as arborists are asked to remove trees that are thought to be dangerous, but aren't. Tree surgeons that remove trees that are perceived by the public to be dangerous, but in reality do not pose a significant risk are risk entrepreneurs i.e. they are taking advantage of peoples fear of trees. A painter and decorator isn't in a position to take advantage of peoples fears are they? I'm not saying that people on here take advantage of others, I'm just saying that it is important that we find out the true reason behind why people want trees removed, so we don't remove trees unnecessarily!

I agree that the client will have their own valid reasons for wanting it removed. I don't know what the customers reason is for wanting this particular tree removed. It might be entirely justified, it could be that they want to put a house in its place or it is causing subsidence. Conversely it could be unwarranted! Very often the risk posed by trees is perceived by the public to be far greater than the actual risk. People can also just be very risk averse. Therefore, I think it is important to discuss with our clients the reasons behind their requests. Our role as arborists is to not only work on trees but also to educate people about trees. It is wrong that trees are removed purely because of misunderstanding (which I am sure happens quite regularly). The approach that Timon is taking i.e. discussing with the client their reasons for wanting it removed and the different options that are available, is certainly the best way of dealing with the situation.

PM sent

It interesting that you have applied the tree quality assessment from BS 5837:2012 in considering the future management of this tree. It seems a sensible approach. However, my concern with the removal of trees simply because they fall into the U category, is that it is bad news for wildlife and for potential veteran and ancient trees of the future! From looking at the photos I think it is likely that the tree could be retained as a living tree (without work) in the context of the current land use for longer than 10 years. I think you should retain the tree for the time being and reinspect every couple of years. You never know it might succumbe to Chalara! the wound and any associated decay will be the least of its worries then!

Which local authority I.e. district or borough council is the tree in?

I agree with Adam. The wound warrants further inspection, a bit of a tap and a prod (particularly at the base of the wound). If its not hollow, it should be ok for a good few years yet.

Hi Marc, sorry for the delay in replying. I think the union is the main issue and one which certainly requires some remedial action, felling being a reasonable option. The presence of the fungal fruiting bodies is interesting. I wonder if the dead bracket indicates a small zone of dysfuntional/dried wood that was colonised by the fungus and has now been fully compartmentalised. If the fungus has exhausted that substrate it will probably die. I'm just hypothesising by the way. I hope David might have some thoughts on this?

oops, sent at the same time, and said pretty much the same as Sloth, sorry.

I'm not entirely convinced that these are Amanita phalloides (Death cap). There are lots of other fungi that these could be: Tricholoma sp. for example. Hopefully David Humphries or Tony Croft will give you a more definitive id. However, regardless of whatever they are, they are breaking down the mulch and releasing all the nutrients back into the soil (recycling). The mushrooms/toadstalls are just the fruiting body, a very small part of the fungus. If the client is worried about children eating them, simply get them to tell them not to! The only way you could get rid of the whole fungus would be to sterilise the area using armillatox or some other banned substance, which would also kill off all the other beneficial organisms in that area! There is absolutely no point!

Marc, Just looking at the photos again, are the brackets coming out from the union of co-dominant stems? Is it possible to post some pictures of the whole tree? I'd be really interested to see.

Marc, it's not so much how they affect the trees health but the stability. However, the health of the tree has a huge influence on the rate at which the fungus will colonise and decay the wood. So if the tree demonstrates normal vitality i.e. normal shoot extension growth, normal crown density, normal leaf size and colour etc, it is likely that the stability of the tree will not be compromised for many years. A sounding mallet will help you to determine how hollow the tree is (obviously this doesn't tell you anything about the roots) but it will help you to make a more informed decision regarding the management of the tree. It is also worth considering the size of the trunk relative to the height of the tree and the size of the crown. Trees with particularly large trunk diameters are often still strong enough to support the tree even when there is less than 1/3 residual wall thickness.

If it was Cryptomeria japonica 'Elegans' I'd have thought it would be a different colour? Mitchell writes 'foliage permanently juvenile, bluish-green in summer, deep red or bronzy, purple-brown in winter'. It's so difficult to identify these sorts of trees from just a couple of photos. I struggle enough with the tree in front of me! 😕

If you are going to be working on trees it would be a good idea to study for the ABC level 2 certificate in arboriculture. This would give you a basic knowledge of tree biology and a reasonable knowledge of the many types of work undertaken by an arborist I.e. crown reduction, crown lifting, dismantling etc.

I'm pretty sure it's not Cryptomeria. How about Chamaecyparis pisifera 'Squarrosa' (a variety of Sawara Cypress)?

I'm with you there James, I'm not up for wearing them for jobs where I'd be using a chainsaw. Which, I guess, is what is putting me off getting them. I already get ribbed for having two (maybe three) helmets for different types of jobs, having two pairs of boots maybe a step too far! Haha

Are there any arbtalkers with these boots? They look great and I'm seriously tempted (especially if they are as comfortable as you say), but I'd like to hear what other people think about them. Are you looking to wear them for all treework? Including takedowns etc?

Cupressus macrocarpa 'Goldcrest'?

👍 My sentiments exactly. Please could the OP post a photo of the basal decay? I'd be interested to see.

If it is dryadeus it's not such a terrible thing, the tree could quite easily have decades left yet. If you're really concerned and what to retain the tree with minimal if any pruning get a local consultant to have a look. It could pay for itself in saving or lessening the need for reduction that might be recommended 'just in case' by a tree surgeon (who may also just want the work - it happens!). I agree. It is apparent from the second set of photos that tree has been reduced/topped in the last couple of years. This will have reduced the wind load/sail area quite significantly, thus reducing even further the risk of the tree failing. There appears to be a good amount of re-growth in response to the pruning, which is a reasonable indication of normal vitality. (Caveat-this is based on looking at a photo, the re-growth could be years of short extension growth or even dead for all I know!). I don't think you should be particularly worried at the moment. However, as suggested by sloth, it would be prudent to have the tree inspected by a suitably qualified, experienced and insured arboriculturist.

Great 👍 You should be able to attach additional photos to a reply, so hopefully you won't need to start a new thread.

Chipperclown would it be possible to post a photo of the crown of the tree? That way we might be able to get a rough idea of the vitality.

Thanks for posting the pics Humpo. They seem to be a low coppard don't they? I've seen hornbeam coppice stools look very similar in the woods near me in Hertfordshire.

Some pics would be great The term 'coppard' is fairly ubiquitous and you are absolutely right it refers to trees that have been coppiced then later pollarded. The pic below is a coppard in Epping Forest (admittedly it's not the best example)

Paulwil what was the reason for that one coming down then?

You are right that 'Haloing' or 'Halo release' is the removal of competition from around a veteran or ancient tree. This can involve thinning the competition rather than removing it entirely. For example you might be asked to thin trees within 15m of the veteran tree by 30%. The reason for this would be to not open the tree up too quickly, which could result in sun scorch or loss of bryophytes etc. It's a method which is often used to manage trees on PAWs (previously ancient woodland sites) where the veteran or ancient tree has been suppressed by conifers. As for 'Stoggling', Its certainly not a term that I've come across before! I'll check the glossaries of Drs Helen Read and David Lonsdale's books later, just to check that I've not missed something.