kevinjohnsonmbe

It came out on a mailing list from Jim Mullholland. I doubt it will be a problem to copy the email files across to here but might be better to email direct?

Tricky: Can I really believe there is 'institutional racism' within the Public sector? I'm not sure I can. Actually, I'm sure I don't. Bristol City council for example, a Labour Mayor and Labour controlled council in a UK city with a long and strong cultural history and diverse population. Seriously? The Public sector is super paranoid and ultra averse to even the slightest hint of racism - it would send the panic merchants into over-drive. The INDIVIDUAL (rest his soul) was murdered by a *(1) thug, but were the actions of the police and council actually institutionally racist or did they simply get it wrong and the race of the perp and victim are irrelevant (other than the perp's apparent motivation.) Is it a pure coincidence that the victim was of foreign origin and that ANY victim that had made persistent, repeat, apparently unsubstantiated demands upon the civil authorities might be subject to the procedures of the Register of vexatious complainants? Or are we to believe this victim was abandoned BECAUSE he was Iranian? Interesting how it's reported differently: The Guardian - "Bristol refugee murder review accuses police of institutional racism" Mail Online - "Police force and a council deemed 'institutionally racist'" Both parties have acknowledged and accepted the finding of the report. Bristol City council statement - "We accept all of the findings of the Safer Bristol-commissioned independent review, including “evidence of both discriminatory behaviour and institutional racism on the part of Bristol City Council”. Avon & Somerset Constabulary statement - We recognise and fully accept the findings of the Safer Bristol Partnership report into the murder of Bijan Ebrahimi. Apart from the apparent undeniable evidence that the perp had diminished 'inhibitors' due to alcohol *(2) how would this be viewed if the victim had been of UK origin? Would it just be incompetence (or a mistake, or under resourcing) rather than institutional racism? Are the institutions too afraid to deny the institutional racism claim? Para's 9.10 -9.11 read to me like the victim was a PITA and was treated as such because he was a PITA not because he was foreign. (Postscript - surprised to learn that the author of the report is an ex-copper) https://www.bristol.gov.uk/documents/20182/35136/Multi-agency+learning+review+following+the+murder+of+Bijan+Ebrahimi/c2b17b97-c9ec-a5f4-70e4-fc82d1ccb119

VETCert - draft veteran tree standards - public consultation Pretty good to see it really taking shape! Another survey and access to draft consultation documents received yesterday by email.

Ownership is an entirely separate issue, just like French or Chinese 'ownership' of the UK nuclear power generation capability. Big money is global not national - we ain't gonna change that anytime soon. Workers wages however, that is another matter and one that is directly related to where stuff is made.

Careful.... You'll end up with Chairman Mao's little red book

Ladies and gentlemen.... Our Shadow Home Secretary - Thick as mince!

It's all about scale Mr E.... What's 40mil as a % of 16.7bil - not like the numbers we're playing with Was it Boris' fault that the bridge project didn't have legs? I don't know.

But he's white, born to wealthy middle class parentage, Eton / Oxford educated, a career in journalism, 2 very successful terms as the Mayor of London, an MP, a SoS, and a leading advocate in the Vote Leave campaign. I doubt there are many (any) here that, when the time comes, will match his epitaph (assuming, and I know we don't, measure a meaningful life by any common scale of achievements.) But still people love to hate him, like I said before, lucky he's white or there'd be all kinds of accusations flying around!

Is that the 65k machine you mentioned earlier? Holy smokes, I didn't mean to be dismissive of 1 trick ponies, they are designed and built to do 1 job absolutely to perfection. The point I was trying to advance was that you'd need to be shoulders deep in grass cutting and as busy as a three legged cat burying turds on a frozen lake to warrant that kind of outlay. It's not for me. For Inthewoods: these are stock internet pics...

I can't remember what the edit was, but, if it was to add incompetent and sanctimonious, I'd stand by it! Tomato / Tomarto.... OK, fair one, excuse me if I don't shed a tear for the most racially biased politician in living memory though.

@felixthelogchopper

Wow! And that's excluding the tractor! Just had a quick online search and found this: https://horsejumpsforsale.co.uk/pto-driven-flail-mowers/6082-triflex-gang-flail-mower-50m-wide.html?gmc_currency=2&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyNjRBRCpARIsAPDBnn2ikjXL9PQC5Ivi60rl9nwRjdv0tlWABZv4a0H46p9XI1S4UB_ra94aAmUFEALw_wcB

That theory falls apart where many generations of a particular demographic, long after their ancestors arrived either voluntarily or otherwise into a new land, still cling to the notion of societal disadvantage as a state imposed situation rather than a social / cultural / personal one. We've had decades of imposed so called equality, yet perennial problems still persist within certain demographics.

out of the mouth of babes...

That's not what I meant... We can't judge what was of it's day by today's standards - especially, as I was at pains to highlight, when there has been such a seismic change in such a short period of time. Just like I carry no gilt for the slave trade - I wasn't a part of it and neither can I change history. It was what it was - in it's time. Just in case the slave trade might cause someone a panic attack, the point applies equally to a whole raft of other issue that might have been deemed acceptable 'in their time', but are not today. I wasn't! Well, self evidently, it WAS ok then, the example of the program I referenced ran for 4 years on national TV - and it was popularly consumed by millions. Then. Bafoon / Baboon - tomato / tomarto

You could argue (in the academic rather than confrontational sense, whilst not wishing to inflate academics nor denigrate confrontationists - just for equality purposes) the preceding few posts illustrate that we might have already....

Perhaps my insensitivity (it's not like I've ever tried to conceal it (I may have tried to curtail it, but generally unsuccessfully)) is matched by what I might think of as your over sensitivity Felix? But I don't hold that against you, I just celebrate the diversity of opinions.... I'd just as readily call my wife a baboon. In this house it's perceived as something of a friendly good natured recognition of a clumsy or careless act. I'll take your point though, I perhaps should readjust my choice of words on the expectation that an over sensitive PC warrior like Dianne Abbott might take offence, or someone might take offence on her behalf. I'll add it to the New Years resolution list. I have tried that before. I did one year resolve to not get into any emotional, heated, controversial discussions on AT. Can't remember which year that was but I failed miserably, and considerably sooner than even I had anticipated. (I guess the trouble is, it's no use having a discussion / debate with someone you agree with?)

We used to agree more often.... Before you went a bit Radio Rental over Brexit.....

Agreed! It's not the best solution for large scale grass cutting but it's not a one trick pony!! The cost of the mower attachment to fit an existing machine is a fraction of the cost of a dedicated mowing machine that (a) only mows and (b) takes up more (storage & transport) space. Getting more usage hours out of the pre-existing machine is the key - hours working is hours earning (if only a little.) Example, I can take the mower and tree shear on 1 trip, cut the grass (for a fairly modest cash return) and reduce the hedgerow trees (as a bonus.) 1 machine, 2 attachments, 2 tasks. Horses for courses... If only there really was a silver bullet!

It was 'of it's time.' It's not of 'today's time.' The question posed was, yes, we have changed immensely in a relatively short time in what is deemed to be 'acceptable' from 40ish years ago to today, has the change in what is considered 'acceptable' resulted in a measurable change in the actual levels of real or perceived separation / discrimination / disadvantage of distinct cultural / ethnic groups? We're inclined to agree....

Sounds more like a problem of preconception on your part.... I'd just as readily call a white person a baboon as a black person. The significant difference being the black person would more likely claim it to be racism rather than a reflection of the behaviour that led to the association! I call our little one a cheeky monkey, thank **** she's not black I'd have the old bill, the social and all manner of PC crusaders beating a path to the door.

You can look it up for yourself! Try 'Alf Garnet' in YouTube search and you'll be presented with plenty.

I'm confused now! Are you saying you cut 30000m2 per hour? That'd be £120/hour would it? Who's got a lawn (or even grass) that size?? Are we talking golf courses? And what machinery does it take to cover that sort of area? Is it tractor gang mowers? Grass cutting is not really my 'thing' but I got a mowing deck for the front of the multione and I cut the sports pitch at the school our nipper goes to. It's 10 minutes away, the previous contractor was a shambles and there is ancillary tree / hedge and other works which make up for the low return on grass cutting. I can have it done in an hour. I guess we're at opposite ends of the scale so possibly not either giving a representative / useful answer to OP. Maybe if OP could provide a bit more detail about scale and frequency + equipment availability we might be able to thrash something out??

That's bonkers Richard! I do one (pretty much at cost because I choose to) which is 4651m2 (1.149 Acre) and it's £114 per visit. That's £0.40/m2 (+VAT.) How anyone could operate at £0.004/m2 is beyond belief!