Gary Prentice

Had a couple of ideas but atm don't want to appear foolish and list them. Can you get some much clearer photos, including the undersurface and maybe even see if you can get a spore print? I'm puzzled. Is that even recorded in the UK? My brief search last night indicated that it wasn't but I'd be happy to be corrected.

It's a good point, although the difficulty might actually be to source the correct variety of common lime. There's a lot of different varieties and the wrong one would/could stick out like a sore thumb, ruining the whole aesthetic of the avenue. Just looking at BS5837 the RPA of a single stem diameter of 150mm tree gives a soil volume of 10 M2 (radius of a nominal circle 1.8m. I know that rootballed trees come with a lot small root-ball but they've been grown and prepared for lifting. You'll need a clean hi-viz jacket and a clip board to undertake a supervisory role though.

Don't be so daft man. For every tree that I've ever moved I've explained that really you should prepare by digging around 1/2 the root circumference two years prior to moving, then the other half a year before to minimise stress and allow time for the creation of fibrous roots. The longest notice before it must be moved has never exceed a week A lot will depend on the soil type and moisture content, some rootballs remain bound together better than others. Personally I'd hand dig the initial trench, maybe a couple of spade depths deep to get an idea of how contained the root system is, or isn't. Once you've done that, if the soils obviously going to fall apart if you even look at it I'd wrap the sides of the rootball. Use the machine, carefully then to widen the trench to create working room to dig beneath the rootball - again by hand. Continue wrapping (with hessian) underneath as much as you can as you go along until the last sinkers can be severed. You might be lucky and find its in a nice clay soil that binds well. You can only play it by ear as you go along. It's pretty much the same principle no matter what size the tree is - have a look at some of the mature trees that they move in the far east.

Arb association booklet isn't too bad. Matthecks Fungal Strategies of wood decay in trees, Roger Phillips - Mushrooms (not particularly tree focused), Weber & Matthecks, Manual of wood decays, Wood decay fungi - Christopher J> Luleu (from the USA, Encyclopedia of Fungi - Gerrit J Keizer More academic and not ident focussed are; Wood and tree fungi - Olaf Schmidt Diagnosis & prognosis of the development of wood decay in urban trees - FWMR Schwartz Defence mechanisms of woody plants against fungi, Blanchette & Biggs That's the bulk of what I can see on my shelves atm, but I'm sure others have their own favourites

Have another look, it's definitely on the app.

Is there a second FFB below the main fruiting mass, there looks to be something different but the photos are quite poor and it's difficult to make out.

Stocks? I was thinking more the gibbet, but I didn't want anyone thinking that I was too over the top.

In and around Manchester it's not unusual to see folks, of all ages and demographics, just drop their litter on the floor when there is bin a dozen feet away. Just totally shamelessly. In an attempt to stop drunks urinating in the street/shop doorways etc some police forces shame then by providing a bucket of water and a mop, making culprits clean up after themselves in front of everyone else. I often wonder if police offices and local council wardens (or whatever they're called) were proactive with culprits it would make any difference. Instead of on the spot fines as some LAs do now, a couple of days of public litter-picking as punishment. Maybe a couple of saturdays in the town centre, with loads of publicity as to why these offenders are doing what they are doing, would make them think twice.

I'd think that TMA do. Much as I like the TMA app I still preferred yours Steve, going as far as to buy a second phone to keep the app on an un-updated one - which worked until it somehow auto up-dated itself.

Just shows the disparity in TPO application decisions. I had a larch pushing a wall a bit taller than that, no argument that the tree was to blame but the TO even proposed re-building further onto the public footpath to allow for future root expansion - he said he would arrange for highways to permit it.

Thanks for the detailed reply Chris, as ever it makes me think and consider a bit more. It's all about the learning after all.

Can't find the original photographs so apologies for the poor image, I had to extract it out of a PDF. This was 'interesting' when the concrete was lifted to reveal the roots underneath.

Maybe I've just been lucky but I've never had a 'light structure' damage application rejected/refused to be validated for not providing an engineers report. I've even won at appeal. On a straightforward hard surface/boundary wall issue it seems like an unreasonable imposition on the part of the authority to demand that the applicant goes to the expense of an 'experts report' when even the home owner can carefully lift paving, provide photographs etc to illustrate that yes, roots are there and showing the normal contact reactions of roots to an immovable obstacle. Reasonably what more information would a structural engineer provide? "I lifted the flag stones, there were roots underneath (photos included), the roots had flattened/broadened at the point of contact." That'll be £300, £400 please. But hold on, the SI hasn't arb qualifications so he can't really comment on a tree roots growth reaction, so then an arb report may be demanded. The owner already has the imposed burden of the TPO, something he owns but cannot do what he wants with, without the consent of the LA and then has to jump through hoops when it starts causing issues. Is it any wonder that some folks are reluctant to have or plant trees. Before I get flamed, I'm only ranting about light structure damage problems, not subsidence. Surely on a simple case of LSD the applicant/agent should be at least given the opportunity to supply evidence? If it's inadequate or doesn't confirm that the tree is the problem, sure it's reasonable for the LA to ask for more proof but most of these situations aren't rocket science. Am I the only one who can see a disparity in that an LA can't give consent with a condition that the owner must get a contractor/approved contractor to do the work, while saying that the applicant must get an expert for a claim that the tree is causing damage to paving and walls?

Harsh! He's environmentally aware and recycling a plastic article.

The LAs response would probably be that it was evident what was going on before the wall collapsed so the duty of care was solely on the tree owner. You could get a report done but it's open to debate how much you'd actually benefit from it. In my experience the LA will refuse because the amenity benefit of the tree outweighs the damage that's occurring. They'll argue that the cost of resolving the leaning wall/damage to paving isn't that great and they'll want evidence that the tree is the cause of the damage. You can gather that evidence if you can do a bit of digging around the wall and lift a couple of flags. You might be lucky and get your application before a planning committee, if apps are dealt with by a TO under executive powers it's more difficult IME. You could try submitting an app to remove the tree because you/someone intend to utilise the 'nuisance' exemption and remove the encroaching roots which will subsequently make the tree unsafe/unstable. See what sort of response that gets. @Daltontrees believes that you can cut encroaching/damaging roots without the permission of the LA (My LA firmly says that, yes you can with their consent ). I think that he is right but haven't yet had a client convinced enough to risk ending up in court. Whatever you do, don't rush to get an application in. Prepare a really good case for removal which you'll probably need after a refusal to take to appeal. Get as much evidence as you can that the tree is the cause of damage, quotes for engineering solutions to retain the tree while dealing with the issues that it's causing. If you can find the root(s) undermining/in contact with the wall, get a quote dismantling the wall, a bridging beam that will allow for future root thickening and rebuilding the wall. Then, for next door, get a price for something like cellweb to go over and protect the roots. You'll want to argue that raised levels will create access difficulties at the garage and at the drive/footpath interface. What you are trying to show is that you've considered engineering solutions and they are either not practicable or so expensive that they outweigh the benefits that the tree provides. See what other input you get on here, but if you decide to do the app yourself PM me. I've something in appeal atm similar to this and I'll email my app and appeal documents, you'd be able to see everything you want to put forward.

I can better that When employed on a LA tree gang we had TM with single lane working - dismantling a dead elm. Fellow stopped his car in the middle of the lights, wound his window down to ask who had given us 'permission' to fell that healthy tree. He was told we didn't need it, we were the council. Still not satisfied he wanted to know why it was coming down, such a healthy looking tree and he had to inform us that, as a tax payer he contributed to our wages. "Cos it's got Dutch Elm Disease and it's dead" Bearing in mind this was June or July "But, but, how do you know that it's dead?" he spluttered. One of the lads just lost the plot then and answered, "Cos it's got no F**k**g leaves on you daft ****. Here's ten p, your contribution to my wages, now F off and let this traffic you're holding up get on with their lives" We all got dragged in the managers officer that afternoon and swore blind that it was just a malicious complaint.

Unfortunately nowadays everyone feels obliged to express their opinion (I blame social media). Don't let it get you down. It's relatively simple on a domestic job to deal with it but be really cautious if you're a subcontractor for a developer or working for an authority or housing association. I had to deal with the aftermath of an incident on a HA site where a tenant was quite abusive/offensive (surprisingly a 'professional person'. Things with the lads got very heated on everybody's part and I ended up having to interview everyone that was on site, take statements etc to pretty much defend ourselves to the Housing Association. If all of our lads had been professional and not reacted it wouldn't have been an issue. Unfortunately some people just can't help themselves, adding fuel to the fire and playing into the complainers hands and making everything worse. If you're in that position, get those lads out of the way and uninvolved in what's going on, they're not helping the situation by adding their two pence worth.

Inform the client as soon as you can, phone them if necessary. At least then they don't get 'ambushed' by the person complaining and they're conversant with the situation.

You're not a real climber until you've had an irate member of the public actually swinging off the end of your climbing rope . Only took two groundsman to hold me back on that occasion, not by finest moment I must admit

Simply by remaining professional yourself, difficult as it may sometime be. One thing that may help to keep in mind, while being abused, is that while you are on site you're acting as a representative of the client. Anything that you say or do may be published on social media, told to the client or even reported to the police (I kid you not) You'll always have the upper hand if you remain calm and polite, even if in your mind you're considering GBH.

Thought they were widow-makers?

@Stubby always leaves the brash, cos (according to him) God hates him anyway.

Well, the last Barrister who tried that tack didn't fare so well, did she?

So you'll stand in court and blame the candyfloss construction instead of the tree? Dares ya

A very bad thing if you're claiming vegetation related subsidence as a reason to remove the tree. Sandy soils don't shrink/swell the same as certain types of clay. EDIT - LA may be thinking that running sand may be the cause of movement, that's if the the cracking is actually due to foundation movement rather than natural settlement, the structure losing the moisture present when it was built etc BGS GeoSure: running sand | BGS GeoSure | British Geological Survey (BGS) WWW.BGS.AC.UK