Gary Prentice

I've been doing a little research, triggered by the legalities of managing protected trees suffering from ash dieback. It seems that I may have been operating under a mis-understanding for several years that removing deadwood was exempt from applications and notifications under the 'dead' exception in the legislation. As a courtesy and to prevent neighbours calling the LA I often phone to let them know we'll be on site dead-wooding, but reading a publication produced by Cornwall Council it seems that I should have been producing written 5-day notices. Exceptions include: • pruning part of a tree that presents an urgent and serious safety risk (see note 2 below) • removing dead branches from a living tree Important note 2: The law makes it clear that in terms of exceptions, dangerous means ‘immediate risk of serious harm’. Therefore a risk assessment would address the size of branch or tree (being assessed) and the likelihood of it falling on a vulnerable or valuable target. So my take on this is that unless the dead limbs that are being removed provide an imminent risk of harm or serious damage, a five day notice should be provided. It reads that we should be considering the diameter/length of deadwood and the affect of it falling as to whether we can just crack on or need to be a bit more formal in our approach. Thoughts and comments please. 5-day-notice-advice-note.pdf

Some of the replies illustrate how poor some of the LA practices actually are, after even acknowledging receipt of a notice seems like hard work for some. On the plus side, it is quite clear legally where the contractor stands. As long as you can prove that a notification has been made and that six weeks has elapsed and no more than two years have passed (and there is no TPO in place), you are in the clear. Do only the works notified! No more. It's one of my own biggest frustrations, LAs wanting the applicant/notifier to dot the i's and cross the t's, while they are quite happy to play hard and fast with the rules and regs.

I thought it was someone else's boots?

You've done the HSE ladder climbing course obviously

Better buy another pair, come Brexit they won't be available anymore

After taking the appropriate course

Heart attack, chemo, septis, stem cell transplant and pneumonia within the last twelve months I'm only fifty three but it may take some time before I'm fit enough to do anything else except aerial inspections. I reckon I'm so lucky that HSE should acspellingcept that I only need a single line

That depends whether the tree was being pruned or removed

It's always better to ask for forgiveness than to seek permission and be refused..... Or so I'm told

I wonder where you stand with sawdust? Legally I believe that leaves from trees are free agents and fall where they will without legal recourse to the owner. I kind of imagine that sawdust doesn't have the same legal protection and somewhere along the line has a responsibility for it. Just musing.

First mistake. Next we'll be asked for all that before lifting Mrs Miggins Apple tree from over next doors garden. Still I suppose it keeps some office dweller in employment.

The change away was an extraordinary decision by the HSE. There was a paper around at the time, commissioned IIRC by the HSE which concluded that, after testing most of the 3way crabs available at the time, they were actually less safe than a screwgate. Go figure. Almost every self-locking Krab I've ever used has malfunctioned and failed to automatically lock on wet slimy trees at some time or another. Mechanism gets filled with crap and stops working until cleaned. And because they are automatic the climber doesn't necessarily instinctively check them unlike a screwgate where you naturally physically tightened it.

Think I remember there was an uproar about felling whole groves due to infection, simply removing growers livelihoods instantly. ADB seems to have been widespread before it was even recognised. What's worrying locally is that nothing is in place to deal with it yet. There's no guidance online from LAs, other than what published 4-5 years ago. Nothing at all about how it affects the timber, how it can't be ignore or anything. I asked this week how planning were dealing with apps to fell infected ash, how much of the crown needed to be infected etc before they'd automatically consent removal. Nothing, they hadn't yet conceived any policy/framework to deal with it. This is our real first year seeing it in mature trees but the rapidity of it's spread through some trees is astonishing. In Denmark it was reported that mature trees might stand for up to ten years. Some of what I've seen are unsafe within twelve months just because of the size/length of the deadwood.

Have you looked at Treelife's website? I know that they run a few each year (and they're really good)

I'm f**k*** glad I've more or less retired from climbing. First off, there must be something seriously wrong with the training in this industry if falls are occurring due to anchor points failing. Simply put this means that the climber is unable to select a suitable anchor point or his working practice is such that somehow he is imposing loads greater than himself on the pre-selected anchor point. I'll predict now that this new practice will lead to more failing anchor points in rigging operations than there is now. Secondly, the fact that other industries operate with two lines at all times doesn't really translate into a three dimensional ever changing object like a tree. Pretty much every other industry requires an operative to gain access to a fixed position to carry out a task. It's often the case that after this task is done that's the end of the job. The multiple movements/re positioning required in our work is pretty unique and just doesn't translate. Rather than using experienced or new climbers to demonstrate two line working a better idea would have been to use IRATA trained climbers to show how they'd manage moving about in a tree. This seems like a huge step backwards creating more problems than it solves, a knee jerk reaction based on inadequate information/data to show a problem that isn't actually that much of a problem that changes need to be made.

Definitely! Saves those 'misunderstandings' (intentional or otherwise) that spoils things. It doesn't have to overly complicated either and becomes invaluable at times.

Think that the firm I used to work at run/runs a 28. Can't remember any serious issues with it at all like you've recorded. Belts were good as long as you were really careful on their alignment, seldom needed looking at after fitting new ones and tensioning again after the first few hours. Batteries were never an issue, apart from once when an electrical fault was discharging it when it was turned off. Think we just replaced it with an off the shelf item. Engine, like most lombardinis I've worked on was A1. Keep up with maintenance and forget it. Only problem was the remote control for a period, it would just disengage the cutting wheel and then fail to connect to the machine again. Messed about reading manuals for the controller/receiver but never found the cause. I think I went through all the electrics re-making connections/ cleaning ground connections etc and it came right. Think you've been really unlucky with a friday afternoon special.

I'm just a bit thick today As an aside and not wanting to derail... I had a beech a yr or two back with KD. If it went it was either going into a lake or through a 3m drystone wall/ ancient lake pumphouse and across a little used B road. I proposed a picus to establish the extent of decay, contacted a very known consultancy firm whose attitude was don't bother testing! KD + Beech + FELL! Client never came back to me and AFAIK it's still standing. It would have been nice to have tested it then and maybe monitorred it's progression. (crown wasn't indicating any loss of hydraulic functionality at the time)

As Steve said we don't come across Olives here much, but if you post some pictures of the symptoms you'll probably encourage some comment. Not 100% sure but I think to date that this disease hasn't arrived on our shores 'yet'.

Is that 'ring' on the same plane as the actual test Steve? Or a foot or two lower than where the sensors were placed?

Good clients are hard come by, unfortunately some just need a little 'educating' to continue the relationship. Personally I would have tried to have a chat about the problems that they've created and then then say that I was introducing a contract and a more formal approach than previously. (taking the sting out of the equation a bit ) As an outsider I can see both points of view from what you've written and can see why they might like to hold back before committing themselves. You want them to see your point of view but understand theirs too. I'd really try to work with them if they are that good a client/provide a significant volume of work, maybe work together that any start date can be moved, with enough notice either way that it works for both of you. Hope you can work something out so that you keep the client and go forward in a mutually beneficial way.

Seems like there are a lot of unknowns with this disease, so every ones experiences and observations are useful and would go towards a better understanding. Good idea Paul

Any history of nearby fires?

I don't get this! I could kind of accept that local to the point of infection there may be some changes in wood characteristics but even with advanced dieback within the crown I can't imagine it would alter the base of the stem. My thoughts are based on how trees react to the DED fungus, compartmentalising infected twigs, tertiary and secondary branches - a progressive compartmentalisation process. I imagine that ash reacts in a similar way. Could it be that as the vascular function diminishes with the loss of foliage/water uptake the lower moisture levels reduce the strength of the wood fibres in tension? I dunno The FISA guidance I read this week (IIRC) focused more on not using wedges for felling due to the vibrations causing dead limbs to fracture. Can't remember much about short grain when felling. EDIT. Would/could drought conditions alter 'fibre strength'? Could there be a relationship there?

Train the dogs better! You've only yourself to blame