agg221

Yep, I wasn't thinking straight when I wrote my previous post, and it's been so long since I last spur pruned anything that I haven't had to think about it. You're right, it is literally the tip isn't it, i.e. remove anything and you've just lopped the flowers off. Alec

You're welcome. I've been doing work on extending durability lately, working with TRADA amongst others, and have been absorbing a lot of information from them. They have an enormous amount of data available, but they make their money by selling it so it's hard to get hold of in a collated form. I think I may also have accidently become the UK representative on the European panel for surface timber treatments, as the previous one left and there are only two other UK-based people involved. I'm hoping that by keeping quiet the other one will pick it up though! Alec

Most of Gollum's first post and my earlier comment about branch placement (scaffold) and cleaning up the trunk etc. relate to pruning for shape, and tree health, but most of the tip bearing, spur pruning and renewal pruning discussion relates to fruit production, although it will have an effect on appearance. Spur pruned trees look like they've had a haircut. Renewal pruned trees always look more shaggy. Neither looks exactly natural. Alec

Specific circumstances where I leave stubs - The trees I prune aren't really commercial, and they're very old (95yrs old on Paradise stock), with several periods of neglect. As such, there are some areas where renewed branch systems are very sparse so I really don't want a particular branch to fail to re-shoot, but there's nothing convenient to cut it back to, and the scaffold is not the right shape to encourage re-shooting. An example might be the only side branch halfway up a rather vertical scaffold branch, so if I take it right back to the collar I'm at risk of apical dominance preventing shooting. As such, I tend to leave the stub, as I'll probably get several shoots from it the following year, and can then choose the one or two I want for renewal and take the coat hanger off the following year as though it was a 3yr old. Also note, I tend to go on a 3yr cycle, removing a third of the shoots back to new wood each year, rather than a 2yr cycle as some people follow. I can't remember where this came from exactly but it seems to work OK. I'm sure I read something from a decent, up to date source somewhere in the late 1990s relating lifespan to pruning method, which came down on the side of renewal pruning. I can't remember what it was at the moment - I'll have a look tomorrow and see if I can find it. Admittedly, that was over a decade ago, so thinking may have moved on since then. Alec

US - grown WRC, Cedar of Lebanon and yew are Class 2. UK-grown WRC is Class 3, which are the highest softwoods. Note that oak and sweet chestnut are Class 2, robinia is probably the highest performing UK-grown species as it's Class 1 or 2. To get real Class 1 you need something like teak or opepe. BS EN350 is a test standard. It's based on a highly aggressive, accelerating environment and monitoring onset of decay, hence you can get different results from the same species grown in different environments (you'd probably get different results from sweet chestnut grown on chalk to grown on an acid soil, and you'd definitely get variation between softwoods grown in the south compared to Scotland). Environments also have classes (hazard classes - BS EN-355), so by combining the two standards, what you get is a sense of how long a particular species will last in a particular class of environment. For example, exterior cladding is a Hazard Class 3 environment. If you use a Class 2 timber such as oak or WRC you get an estimated life of 40-60yrs. If you use a Class 3 timber such as larch you get an estimated life of 30-40yrs, but for Class 4 timbers you get 25-35yrs. Class 5 would give you 15yrs estimated life. Go to a Hazard Class 5 environment though, such as a fence post, and these times drop dramatically. Apologies to the original poster if this is more than they ever wanted to know! However, the one point that may be useful to them to add is that detailing can make an enormous difference on cladding. This includes not taking it right to the ground - use a masonry plinth a minimum of 6in and preferably 10in high (just as they did with cill beams in timber framed houses) and think about detailing the eaves with a good overhang, providing free air ventilating space behind the cladding, and about how the openings for windows and doors are detailed so that the water runs away and not into the cladding. Also, seal the end grain of all the cladding boards if you want them to last, e.g. by painting them. This has got rather long and complex! Alec

Spur pruning is unlikely to do much harm as such, over an extended time period (depends on vigour of the rootstock but could be 50yrs+). It's a very established technique. Observation (e.g. at Wisley and East Malling) does, however, indicate that it does eventually lead to decline, whereas renewal pruning tends to be better for preserving trees indefinitely. I can't remember exactly what the hypothesis is as to why, but suspect it's related to the way in which the growth is removed. There are some really good illustrations in an Ancient Tree Forum article, that show how a renewal pruned tree looks (it's their recommended technique): http://frontpage.woodland-trust.org.uk/ancient-tree-forum/atfscapes/images/RestoringFruitTrees.pdf Most apple varieties produce fruit buds at the base of a 1yr old shoot. When this grows it produces a cluster of flowers and a wood bud behind that extends the spur year on year. Some varieties don't produce this spur bud - instead they produce their fruit buds further up the 1yr old shoot, nearer the tip. As such, if you trim them back as per spur pruning you cut off all the flower buds. Most tip bearing varieties are actually partial tip bearers and will eventually form spurs as the tree matures, but if you rely on this you wait a very long time for a crop! Partial tip bearers include Bramley, Granny Smith, Blenheim Orange and Worcester Pearmain. Alec

Regarding durability, BS EN 350-1 recognises five classifications of natural durability for timbers. These relate to the resistance of the heartwood to attack by wood-decaying fungi: •Class 1 very durable •Class 2 durable •Class 3 moderately durable •Class 4 slightly durable •Class 5 not durable You can find a more complete description at Preserving Confidence Spruce, Scots Pine (aka European whitewood and European redwood) and Douglas Fir are Class 4. Oak and sweet chestnut are Class 2. Larch is Class 3. As such, they can't be classified as extremely resistant to dtcay, although it's true that with good detailing they can last a very long time - Douglas Fir was used for a lot of C19 window frames which are still going strong. Perhaps 'warp' is too strong to describe what the larch will do - more accurate to say it will do what it wants to. If it's got any internal stress, it will move, in a way that short grain timbers won't. It will, however, be no worse than oak, which is perfectly tolerable, I just don't expect it to stay dead straight. Nice technique on feather edge Alec

I don't tend to use Tony's approach (spur pruning) as it tends to limit tree life and, unless this is a true commercial orchard, usually people prefer to have the tree than maximise yield. It also means no crop if the variety happens to be a tip bearer. I therefore tend to use renewal pruning. This has other advantages in being compatible with both spur and tip bearing types, without change in method, and although it looks a bit more scruffy it is also easier (to a certain point overcoming Mark Bolam's point that it will always take 17.5x longer than you think). In renewal pruning, the aim is to have a more-or-less permanent scaffold of branches, about half a dozen or so, evenly(ish) spaced around the trunk and roughly in a goblet shape. For a dwarf tree (up to 8ft of permanent scaffold), there only really wants to be one layer of these branches. In a large tree there can be several tiers of branches, spaced vertically 3ft apart. Everything smaller is temporary. The aim is to work on a 3yr cycle: Shoot grows out, crops yrs 2 and 3, end of which you chop the whole thing off, back to the 1yr old shoot nearest the main scaffold and the cycle starts again. If there isn't a conveniently placed 1yr old shoot, your choices are to chop the 3yr old branch right off and hope something sprouts, chop it hard back (6in stub) and hope something sprouts, or if you really can't affort to risk it, treat it like a mini-reduction and take it back to something definitely live, taking the rest out next year when something has sprouted. And that's about it. Leave a mini-branch every foot or so along the scaffold and away you go. Other aspects are too specific to the tree and situation to provide much generic comment. Start by cleaning everything off the trunk, below where the branches start, chop out any suckers, dead wood, diseased wood (particularly look for canker and either remove or trim back to non-browned bark in the cambium line). Take out anything crossing and try to leave the tree such that you can clearly see right through it when the leaves are off. Alec

Leylandii, like any species, will work. It will probably be very knotty though which will make fixing a total pain. The oak would definitely be strong and durable, and a nice timber to work with. Could you make the frames a bit deeper (say 5x3 rather than 4x2) and cut the plasterboard to fit between them (ledged on small battens, milled at the same time)? If so, you could create an exposed internal frame, which would be very traditional and quite attractive (our house was built this way - obviously wattle and daub rather than plasterboard) in about 1500. Alec

It will work. However, in addition to the very valid comments above, a couple of other points: You're almost certainly not subject to building regs, but in the unlikely event that it's big enough that you are, be aware that construction softwood should be graded, yours won't be, and probably wouldn't pass if you tried. Different softwoods have different properties, both strength and durability. Strength is unlikely to be relevant here, but durability will be highly relevant. You can't pressure treat and are unlikely to be able to buy anything that works in the long term. Don't assume that non-durable species automatically rot - think of the inner layer of straw on thatched houses, which is often original and centuries old. But, if they get damp, either through poor design or temporary exposure, they will respond differently. Larch is reasonably durable, Douglas fir heartwood is good (but you won't get much out of cord and it's a pain to separate), other species are less durable. Larch is long grain, so tends to warp more, but is strong. What sort of sawmill does your friend have, and have you specifically considered how you'll make the feather edge cladding? Traditionally, this is made by milling square edge boards, planing the outer faces (if painting) and then ripping down near the diagonal, leaving 1/4in one side, 3/4in the other, so you usually need a planed thickness of 1in plus kerf. If not planing, this is slightly easier as you can cut the boards feather edged directly. But, even if you can adjust the height of the mill head over the log independently on each side, you still need to cut your cant square edged before you start cutting, and be very careful about how much you move the head down on each alternating cut - it won't be the same amount unless your log is centred on the bed. Speaking from the experience of having milled enough 8in wide oak feather edge this year to cover my two storey extension, it is tedious. The fixing technique for feather edge of this type is a single fixing through each board, just above the overlap with the board below. The bottom edge is therefore fixed down, but the top edge is free to float slightly (although trapped by the board above so it can't warp). This stops it cracking as it expands and contracts depending on the weather. Alec

Not quite true. One of my contacts is the owner of one of the largest sawmill companies in the UK. They do have a mill in Latvia, but most of their timber is UK produced, mainly in Scotland. European redwood (Scots Pine), whitewood (Norway Spruce) and Larch are all converted at a staggering rate. I reckon their Carlisle plant was processing a 4m log every 30s or so, running about 16hrs a day. Much of the larger section material was being graded - in the UK certification is via TRADA. Alec

They should be identical to the ones on an 075 or 076 if that helps. Alec

Hi Rob, There are different types of oil - with different chemical structures. Some can polymerise, others can't. Walnut is one of the ones which can't. My understanding is that some people with allergies are sensitive to extremely low concentrations, hence the point about items made for sale (particularly noting that, although used as a food oil, walnut being non-polymerising will leach slowly into foodstuffs). There's some well written, accurate information here: Oil Finish Primer for Woodturners Have you seen that one? Alec

Couple of comments with regard to points raised above: Oak is not a good idea, as it will stain up blue if left in contact with anything steel. You may not have anything steel in your kitchen, but leaving it in contact when damp, even briefly, with some old style tinned implement where the tin is wearing thin will leave an indelible mark. High grade stainless won't stain it blue - low grade stainless will. Tung oil is food safe, but not for people with extreme nut allergies. Again, not a problem for own use, but possibly a problem for sale. Alec

Maples (sycamore and, I believe, the native field maple) are naturally antiseptic, which would make sense for kitchenware. Beech is close grained, clean and doesn't taint food so would also be a logical choice. Agree that it's usually end grain though - that way the knife cuts go down the grain, which closes up. If you cut across the grain on a face it won't do this, and will inevitably bow or crack. I don't have either in that width I'm afraid. Alec

My position is similar to yours in some respects - amateur, with reasonable experience within a very tightly defined range (defined by myself). I have looked into the insurance side quite carefully, as my main activity is felling large oaks for milling, so I'm always on somebody else's land, often with a right of way, usually with an 066M and an 076. Oddly enough, so long as it's not for hire or reward (i.e. you're not being paid for the job) your liabilities are covered under your household contents insurance. This is because you are allowed to use your household contents anywhere you want (and are still covered). This is the same public liability cover as if you were using them on your own land. You'll probably find that if you want a statement to confirm this, your insurance company will be happy to point you in the right direction, in writing (mine always have been, through various different insurers). So yes, you're fine doing both 1. and 2. in your original post. Of course, this doesn't cover your equipment or your health, but that's what personal judgement is all about. It will be a sad world when those of us who do things like this for pleasure, with due care for the risks involved, are no longer able to - thankfully we're not there yet! Alec

I'm not a pro either btw, and have no tickets. I was lucky enough to be taught by a couple of very skilled people, coincidently whilst doing canal restoration, in the mid-1990s before you needed tickets to be on the site. I'm not a Stihl snob, but prefer them for milling as the chain tensioner is better sited. For reference, I bought my 051 as a back-up on ebay last year for £35 inc. shipping. Sycamore should mill nicely - it will either be very plain and white, or you'll be lucky and get some beautiful grain. For reference, I don't use a felling bench (no particular reason, just haven't tended to). I tend to roll lengths onto a chain using a 6ft length of 3x2 steel box section, or dig under to pass chain through. I prefer chain for dragging, as it doesn't foul up like rope, and doesn't spring if it slips or breaks, just goes slack. Alec

True enough. There's also the point about how long you would have to wait to season it in the round - since you want to slow down drying from the ends by painting, it all has to go out through the sides. For context, I've just come back from taking down a couple of standing dead oaks to mill, one of which was already dead by 2005. The second length, which is about the diameter you're talking about, is still wringing wet. Hopefully my neighbour is back from holiday this weekend, as he's a haulier so he'll be bringing my butts back here for me to get on with, so I will shortly be milling oak of similar size to yours, which is quite a pleasant diameter to work with. Do you have your powerhead and bar lined up? If not, can I suggest that, assuming you're thinking of getting an Alaskan, you go for a 36in mill and an 066 powerhead. This will do most of what you want and cost a lot less than the bigger saws - just take a bit longer. If you need to keep costs down, consider an 051 powerhead with a 30in bar but still get the 36in mill as if you get the bug and want to scale up then this is big enough for most things. Lack of chain brake isn't really an issue when milling. Another point, if you felled the butt in your picture, consider having a look at some of the forestry felling techniques before you're next felling for milling. You would normally aim to fell as low as possible to preserve the maximum length - you could probably have got an extra 18in on that one, which would have been the fattest bit, so most useful. Just a thought. Oh and the key thing, work out how you're going to extract your extremely heavy milled timber! If you're able to leave it where it is after milling, take the sticks into the woods, take one of the scrap branches and chop off a straight 2ft length about 6-9in dia, then split it in half and place the two halves split face down, spaced apart by about half the length of the log. You can then stack the boards up the two half logs, flipping them over, as they come off the mill, sticked as they go. Finish with the scrap bottom at the top and your stack will start drying nicely in-situ (and getting lighter!) while you sort out extraction. Of course, if you've got moving it sorted then ignore the above, but I reckon milling in the woods causes less grief with the neighbours, however tolerant they are, and you don't have to clear up the sawdust! Alec

Mill it first, then let it season, stacked with dry sticks in between. If you let it season first then it will choose where the shrinkage cracks run (inevitably across your boards) whereas if you create the 'cracks' by sawing it will stay less cracked. Painting the ends will help reduce cracking - anything will do this (old gloss paint is cheap!). If you don't do it, it's not the end of the world, you'll just tend to lose a couple of inches off each end with oak. Try to line up so that one of your cuts goes straight through the centre. This is the point where cracks start from, so it's good to remove it otherwise the board with the centre in is always likely to split. Alec

One route out of this point is the solid carbide dremel bits - you can sometimes get secondhand ones from PCB assembly places on ebay. These can be used to cut slots, broaden out from a drilled hole or remove sheared off hardened steel things, e.g. easyouts. If they do break off, they're brittle enough to break up by hitting them with a masonry nail as a punch. Alec

I would be inclined to take slightly different approaches with the trees you've shown in the different photos. The top one I would entirely agree with Slack Ma Girdle, as there's nothing very useful here beyond the water shoots. I'd be inclined to take the main horizontal branch in the foreground back to just behind its major fork, leaving the downward pointing branch as the furthest point. This would reduce leverage considerably and encourage growth further back. Over time, I'd take it further back still but that would do for now. Picture 3, I'd clean up the trunk to the main fork, and I reckon you can get a decent head out of what's there, with a bit of balancing (upper branch on the left is a bit too long and heavy). As such, I'd take the water shoots in the middle right out. Picture 5. Is your soil a fairly heavy clay? If so, I'd wait until the ground is really wet, then lift it upright re-stake it, firming in well in the void formed at the trunk base. The existing head will then be fine. You'll then see what is inward growing - my guess is the upper part of the branch on the left hand side and the outer upward-facing parts of the right hand branch. I'd take these off, and then probably the lowest sub-branch of the right hand branch. My guess is that these are on MM106 stock, but it could be a bit more vigorous - depends a bit on the soil. They're not growing away too vigorously, so can probably be kept comfortably to the size where you can pick them from the ground. Hope this helps. Alec

Hi Billy, Firstly, images would help. Secondly, you're just entering apple pruning season - from about now through to about March, but try to avoid doing it on days when it's below freezing. Thirdly, the good news, apples are highly responsive to complete re-forming of the top, even on very old ones. The pictures will give a better indication of size, but generally you want to do it over several years, somewhere between three and five is normal, and to give them encouragement to grow by clearing a circle at the base of weeds, about three to five feet across, depending on the size of the tree, and giving it a good mulch and a general purpose fertilizer to help it along. I re-formed most of the apples in my parents' place about 25yrs ago when they were already 70yrs old and they are doing fine. The original Bramley is still going strong, having fallen over about a century ago and grown an entirely new head from what was originally a branch, so it's quite likely to get you where you want to be, without marital strife! It's worth having a look at a copy of 'The Fruit Garden Displayed' either from the library or a quick browse in your local bookshop. It gives a very good idea of staged pruning. Alec

Only four? How do you get by with only four! Alec 026, 044, 051, 066M, 076 and am keeping a lookout for the ultra-elusive 090G Super

If you want your galvafroid to look more like galvanising, once it's well dried rub it over with a brass wire brush - probably not necessary on a plant trailer, but works when you're touching in other galvanised things. Alec

I personally would throw it away. I've lost several barrels and pistons. I can't be certain why, but I know I mixed the fuel properly. It could be that I got bad fuel from the local garage, or that it was used too long after I mixed it. All I know for certain is that it has cost me the best part of a grand. As I use any particular saw intermittently I now use Aspen, as it doesn't have this problem and means I don't have to throw fuel away or risk it (on top of not producing benzene fumes). This suits me better! Alec