wyk

Echo is made by Echo... sort of. Echo recently bought Shindaiwa, whom made great saws as well. So their technology is a mix nowadays. They manufacture equipment both in the US and Japan. My Echo CS-520 was made in Japan. It's about 10 years old or so? I forget. It's still going strong. I gave it to a good friend whom works in forestry near the outskirts of London. This is what it sounded like after a mild port job spring before last: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlRuyVtQI5I]Echo CS-520 Ported - YouTube[/ame] Wow, hadn't realised how loose that bar and chain were. Must have been a tad hasty when I grabbed it for a quick video. That is a 15" 3/8 bar and chain there. I eventually put a 20" 325 on it for the reach, as it made it much easier on my back snedding cedars in Dorset. It pulled it very well, even buried in Oak. In the states, simply having the receipt is all you need to claim the warranty. I dunno how it is in the UK. But, like most manufacturers, it can be nerve-wracking to claim the warranty, especially after a few years. I dunno if they are pro-rated or some such, either. Never had to claim it on any Echo product I have ever used. I am fond of their stuff in the states as they can often be had for great prices used since arborists tend to favor them in many areas. A good product at good prices new; at least they are in the states. A new Echo 500p is about $450 retail or so.

When I was running 325 on an 026, I used the 11/64 on it until the teeth were gone. It stays sharp long enough, cuts faster, and never lost a tie strap. Relieving a bit of the strap and the gullet is an old fallers/cutters trick in the states to make a chain cut better as well, so grinding a bit of them off never bothered me. If you just cut conifers, you can get away with using a 13/64 file. I did so for about a year until I ported the saw and put 3/8 on it.

Wow. Thanks for the info Mr. D. DO you have any of the 'light weight' bars available in 24 and 28" versions?

WHere'd ya get a sugihara bar from? The internets? They are usually very well made.

Absolute nonsense. Both are quality, reliable machines.

Haven't found a new vented cap for a 44/444 yet. No one has one in stock. Ugh. She's been getting stronger as I have been using it, though. So after a few tanks I went and took another compression reading:

I had to set it to idle a tad fast so I could richen it up due to the vent issue. Turns out this had the old fuel cap vent set up. So now I have to hunt down the correct fuel cap... It explains why it leaned out on the previous owner and seized. In the vid you can see in 3 cuts it goes a bit leaner and has trouble staying on. As for the starting it, I would usually have the bar pointed more down or on a log(like this: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8uNt0CqU0c]372XP in Big Leaf Maple - YouTube[/ame]), but this thing is so light I can just hold it out and start it. No, it's not the way health and safety or the guilds teach you(and I do have my first 3 certs), but it's how I usually start a saw if I am not in proximity to anything. Have you noticed it hasn't even got a chain brake yet? This saw is 30 years old. I used my first saw in forestry cutting fire lines in the Sierra Nevada's in the early 1990's. That saw had a chain brake, tho At this point it's faster than the stock 50's we have by a good margin. Well, at least until the vent causes a problem. Once the vent is fixed, I will advance the timing some. It's running 195psi, so I don't want to go too crazy on the timing. But even a small bit of timing makes a big difference.

I couldn't leave well enough alone. I took the 444SE and bored the carb out some more, and added a second opening to the muffler since it sounded like pretty high pressure coming out of it previously. The tank vent is obstructed and can't keep up with the saw now. I'll fix that tomorrow, it was too hot today(33C and 40% humid). You can see me vent the tank to get her started, and then she dies again later on. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAe-2OZEQmQ]Ported, popped, Husqvarna 444SE, dual ported muffler, Carb bored to 33mm, 18" 3/8 B&C - YouTube[/ame]

Thanks, Bud. Means a lot coming from ya. I spent months on and off with this one chasing one problem or another. At one point the top end literally blew off. Turns out the bolt's on the jug that came with the saw were completely wrong. It's mostly sorted now. But it's eventually gonna need a new chassis, and certainly needs more carb. It is always on the verge of being too lean in this weather. Once summer is gone, it should be easier to keep tuned, assuming i don't find a more viable carb by then. I am going to use this as my truck saw. Just to bust out with on the occasion a trail is blocked, etc. I work in logging country a lot. SInce I will need the reach, she will be wearing that 18" B&C with 3/8 chain. Most the woods we have here in Washington State are conifer or soft hardwoods like Alder and poplar, so she'll do fine. Cheers

I had all manner of issues with this thing. The original piston was toast, so I replaced it with a machined piston for a 346OE. The pop up ran 230PSI, so I had to grind that back down nearly 85% the way. It is now running 190psi. The carb was rebuilt. IN the first vid it is stock, and in the second vid it is bored out nearly 1mm. She still could use more carb as I went a lil heavy on the porting side of things. She's running a tad lean in the second vid too. It sounds much more lean in the vids than in person I am finding out. I need me a tach. This lil 44cc's of saw ain't doing too bad now. Anyhow, here's the vids: Non bored carb, 18" B&C with standard 3/8 full chisel chain, 16" green lodgepole: Ported 444SE with 18" 3/8 B&C - YouTube And here with the carb bored in about 20" of green, sticky lodgepole full of blue stain fungus(Grosmannia clavigera): 444SE carburetor bored closer to 33mm - YouTube Yes yes,I know, PPE. Blah.

Nice work, Spud. The 346xp's and the 372's are tremendous powerhouses when ported well. But the new MS261, when thoroughly gutted of it's strato feature and ported, is amazing as well. far cry better than the old 260.

The upper transfers must be modified for both more flow and a better flow pattern. I increased the timing a few degrees. I then ground the ports forwards towards the intake side to allow more flow to the front of the cylinder. This helps the flow across the top of the piston and the flow pattern in general. After looking at the pattern on the piston, I think I can bring the uppers back a touch as well. So you are overall adding more timing and width. The lower transfer I opened all the way to the bottom of the case. So a significant amount of metal was ground off there. I ended up with about a 3/16th inch X 1.2 inch port into the case. I did this hoping to increase flow at all RPM's because I want enough torque to run an 18" 3/8 B&C on this saw, and not just horsepower. I need it to be a trail clearing saw for a toolbox in my timber cruising truck. I occasionally see 3' trees in my way, so 18" was mandatory. This saw is treated rather poorly, so I decided to use the $20 444SE that fell in my lap for the duty. I have replaced the piston with a modified 346xp piston. It's giving me a bit too much compression right now(close to 230PSI),and i am starting to see some detonation, so I am going to make a gasket out of a beer can and see how she does. Barring that, I'll then put a washer on the spark plug. While I didn't go nuts on the timing of the transfers and port, I am not sure adding another full-sized gasket would be beneficial. So we'll see how she does in bit here. I wish I could supply beter images, but my camera has no macro setting

Porting and rebuilding a 444SE

I'm a fan of Save Edge: Save Edge | Home of the sharpest files in the business.

Get the 372 and send it to spud for some port work, and mebbe a gasket deletion. Even minor port work on a 372 makes a huge difference. I'd offer to do the work, but I am in the states until autumn. A ported 372 will flat out embarrass a 7900, and will pull and oil a longer bar.

The 372xp weighs half a pound less than the 7900/7901. The 460 weighs almost the same. Most published saw weights are marketing rubbish. The 7900 is more aggressively ported than the 372 and 460 are stock. It pulls pretty strong, but I think my 046 mag with dual port exhaust had more grunt. The 7900 is somewhat popular on the east coast of the US. It is, by no means, a competitor to STIHL or Husqvarna for sales. The west coast is thickly husky and Stihl, and Dolmar shops are extremely rare.

The wrap bars are mostly so it is easier to start a humbolt undercut from the weak-hand side(at least for most), but it also helps so you can easily feed the pulling end of the bar on a back cut, and is a lot of help on steep terrain. It isn't any fun to use the pushing side of the bar in 3-4' of wood a few dozens times a day. It takes a lot more effort, and the saw tends to spit back out at you when the tree pushes or gunks up. Carrying around an extra 6 ounces is easier. It's not like you have to flush cut with that saw, anyways. When a long bar is buried in softwoods, it encounters all sorts of resistance. You have sap that wants to gum up the wood - so a high output oiler is a necessity, especially since the bar is going to heat up buried in a lot of wood for an extended duration. You also have very fibrous wood, which makes large and longer chips. So skip chain makes much more of a difference, especially since the softer wood allow faster chain speeds,for clearing out the chips. Also, very few professional fallers I know do not have a ported saw. As for the local every day guys, a 24" bar on a 60cc saw gets the job done. It could be faster with a 20, but the 24 just covers all your options better,and it pulls it decently in soft wood.

At many of the local shops in Oregon and Washington state, ordering a 440(044), 460(046), 660, all get the high output oiler, large spikes, and full wrap treatment much of the time. Hell, even the Dolmars have full wraps nowadays. A bud of mine just did some cutting in Montana over the last week with some loggers. He brought some Mountain Douglas Fir(Pseudotsuga menziesii var. glauca) back with him that he said cut hard as any hardwood he's ever cut. It looks like a dead ringer for D-Fir, but the growth rings were so close it was difficult to count them. A lot of it has to do with the rainfall discrepancies. Trees, even hardwoods,simply grow faster and bigger in the pacific northwest.

True. Though, the difference seems to be more so in softer woods. When you can bring the rakers down, and use skip, the square grind can really pull the wood out of the cut. Most local saw shops will have a square grinder, and most the fallers I know have their own grinders. It was one of the locals that showed me how to relieve the back of the teeth, open the gullets and thin the rakers so the square cuts even better. In any case, back OT. With softwoods like we have in the pacific northwest and available chains, you can generally pull more bar than you can back east or in the UK in hardwoods. I still wouldn't put a 24" bar on a non-ported 60cc saw, tho. But I'm told the 555 and 562 Husky have a lot of grunt for their displacement...

Here's an example of the chips in relatively soft big leaf maple(Acer macrophyllum) in Oregon. This is a slightly modified, non ported, 372XPW with a 28" bar and full skip square ground chain. The chain is more modified than the saw, really. It's my standard 'woods' grind I do on them, with rakers set at about .040 or so. The tree was about 4.5' DBH which is usually about when they like to fall over: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8uNt0CqU0c]372XP in Big Leaf Maple - YouTube[/ame] Yeah, I know I should be wearing PPE. But I just wanted to kick this video out real quick almost as an afterthought.

When I was working in the coastal mountains of Oregon, if you stopped at the local saw shop and asked for chain longer than 24", they automatically made you a loop of skip chain. You had to specify non skip if you wanted it. At the time I was running 28" and 32" bars on my slightly modified 046. Here it is after getting some big leaf maple firewood from a ranch I was clearing alder blow down at.

As far as STIHL stating a 24" on their 60cc saws, it makes a bit of sense when you consider the following: On most state land in the PNW, you can only fall trees and get firewood in 24" or smaller sizes. If you peruse the Craigs List classifieds in the Washington state and Oregon areas, you will see saw after saw with 24 and 28" bars on them.

The guy in the vid is new to cutting, so I'd go a little easy on him But seriously, I think we all know a 20" bar in the PNW is not gonna get a lot of work done. If you charge by the job or the hour, it doesn't matter too much. But when you are paid by the tree or production, it makes a lot more since to use as much bar as you can get away with. Most PNW fallers use a 70cc saw with a 28-32" bar with skip chain to good effect. Drew, the instructor in the video, appears to be using an MS460 with a 24" bar. It sounds pretty stock to me, too. Siderius is in Montana, tho. That wood will be tougher - not nearly as much rain.

Did ya manage to find a cylinder? I couldn't for the life of me. I have to hope this one cleans up. It's definitely aluminum deposits by the feel of it.

Thanks, Mate. I can't claim the responsibility, tho. Randy did the porting and the pop up and squish adjustment. He also advanced the timing, if i recall correctly. It pulls nearly 200PSI. I told him I wanted as much grunt as he could get me and still hold the chain still at idle. He certainly delivered. I think one off the reasons larger bars are popular in the NW is not only due to the wood being softer and more fibrous, but also to do with the fact chainsaws are cheap. That 262 started life s a 261, then I added the 262xp piston and cylinder. From start to finish, including the porting and machining, it was £300. A new STIHL MS440 power head with full wrap and dawgs is £500 here. And in small wood, my 262 is faster. Bars are also relatively cheap, but not as much as chainsaws are.