AA Teccie (Paul)

Jake, climbers often develop into businesses (sorry din't reply sooner!) IMHO opinions, particularly in this industry (altho I have no other to compare to), are often very hard to change unless you go thru the process and "feel the luuuuuvvvvvvvv", SORRY:biggrin: Beleive me the ethos behind the accreditation is the right one and businesses do have to 'buy into' this, and indeed demonstrate tree work to a very good standard, but thereafter the responsibility for maintaining that involves several others and, inevitably, some won't. Again, nothing in life is perfect, and the scheme isn't, as probably no otehr industry scheme is, but I strongly believe in it and will continue to promote it as much as I can. Cheers for asking.. Paul

You're very welcomed Andy, glad it helped. Regarding wearing gloves, it is recommended 'good practice', it doesn't have to be chainsaw protective gloves either, and there's a whole range of different ones out there I regularly see used from the yellow, rubberised ("don't go there!" ) ones to the thinner 'Gripper' gloves that have good dexterity so can be used when climbing. When doing ArbAC assesments, particularly during autumn/winter, i.e. cold(er) weather, we do expect to see gloves used and will question the RA process if they're not as they, at the very least, keep hands warmer and reduce the risk of HAVS damage. So, get in their preferences (gloves-wise), as that's often a good starter, i.e. "look guys HSE/AA recommend gloves so which ones do you want to try" (costs isn't usually excessive) and keep banging the "wear them" drum. Good luck and 'warm hands'..warm heart, awwwww ! Paul

Hi there, Essentially if you are a small business ('less than 5 employees') and interested in becoming 'ARB Approved' you are welcomed to join me at the workshop to learn more. If however you can secure a prior nomination from a local authority tree officer, who is basically confirming you undertake good quality treework usually evidenced on TPO'd etc. trees, then you can both attend AND enter the draw at the end of the day fro 1x FREE assessment (saving £495 +VAT) and 2x half-price assessments (saving £247.50 +VAT). The only requirement is that you have to have been trading as a business for a minimum 2 years, you need to have min. 5 years industry experience and the assessment dates are predetermined (19-21 March (2013)). The pdf. I attached explain more and the 'standard' for arb approved can be veiwed at Become an ARB Approved Contractor, scrolling down to the word doc. BUT I would emphasise these assessments are much more focused on outcomes rather than processes and last time round 90% of entries got at least provisional approval first time round. Hope this helps. Paul

Dear arb contractor, Are you a small business interested in becoming 'ARB Approved?' Could you get support from you Local Authority Tree Officer? Would you be keen to save the £495 (+VAT) assessment fee? SORRY if that all sounds a bit corney but if you genuinely are interested please get in touch ASAP as we are running a workshop on Wed. 13th Feb. at Myerscough College (TBC.) Cheers for your time. Paul PS LA nomination form below. aa_LA_ArbAC_Free_Assess_Nom_Form-1112.pdf

Hi there, you've probably got good replies already so apologies if I'm repeating stuff. Firstly, when you mention "ppe" presumably you mean 'PPE checks', for condition and serviceability etc., rather than actually using PPE...which I hope / am sure you do. These are more 'good practice' issues than a direct legal requirement and should be done periodically. The legal requirement for Risk Assessment, specifically although obvioulsy method statements are part of the same risk management process, is contained within the Management of H&S at Work Regs. 1999 (Reg.3) and it basically requires that where you employ (or engage on a 'labour-only sub contractor basis' = employees, effectively) 5 or more people you have to record the 'significant findings' of the RA process = write it down. However, as others have said, it's much easier to prove you did a RA if something is written down anyway (other than the most simple, straight forward small jobs maybe.) Method Statements (MSs) are 'over requested' in my opinion (shared by HSE too) and should be confined to complex / unusual jobs or works where you need to coordinate with others, i.e. construction sites. Hope this helps...a little Cheers.. Paul PS This is the 'H&S' legal requirement, or rather my interpretation of, contractually and insurance wise it might be different so you need to check.

Hi Jake, thanks for your post and your comments therein...and I wholly share your sentiments and frustrations I'm not naive to think ArbACs never do sub-standard work, if only, BUT I hope it is the minority of time and, as explained previoulsy, it's ofetn at someone elses instruction (yes, I'd love to think ArbACs would "walk away" but they have businesses to run and wages to pay like everyone else.) Not an excuse but an explanation. Also, as I mentioned, there is a complaints mechanism in place to help control standards. In many respects it is unfortunate that the work of a tree contractor, and not just ArbACs, is ofetn left on display for everyone else to view and pass opinion on. The trouble is that often only presents half of the story, so to speak. On approval I often use a phrase Kevin Moore often cited in that "You'll only ever be viewed as good as your worst job", much truth eh? IN terms of the individual accreditation thing, whilst developed by the AA in conjucntion with Lantra SSC it will be an industry wide scheme, probably administered by Lantra SSC, available to all and whilst it will incur the individual a fee this will be an admin fee payable to whoever admins it (prob Lantra SSC.) It will have no direct bearing on ArbAC status but obviously it will be easier to demonstrate staff competence etc. if a business 'buys in'. As I said this is very much at the development stage so I can't offer further info at this time. Thanks again for your interest and please don't dismiss ArbAC based on what you've seen (the minority I'm sure). I know the process helps to improve businesses, all aspects, and at least it gives an industry bench-mark to measure from. Cheers.. Paul

Paul, thank you. Lantra SSC (sector skills council, who receive funding from central government for training/learning etc. in the land-based sector) are looking at 'further' developing an initiative called the Professional Skills Framework (PSF, another 3 letter acronym...we just can't get away from them ) whihc kinda aligns with your proposal. Jaime Bray, the chair of AWG (the AA's Arborist Working Group) is heading up the working group looking at developing it further and getting industry 'buy-in'. Essentially the framework recognises quals / skills / competencies / experience and currency, i.e. I'm not 'current' in climbing skills (some may argue I never was ) and grades operatives accordingly from trainee arborist, or grounder for those essential people who don't have a head for heights, to skilled to master...or similar. So 'watch this space', as they say, and/or initiate a dialogue with Jaime. Cheers Paul. Paul

Good morning all....(EVENTUALLY he puts in an appearance! Sorry but I did promise my wife n kids I'd take a full week off 'over Christmas' and that included letting the battery die on the Blackberry ) Firstly, and to Paul J. in particular, THANK YOU for your very detailed and accurate responses here. You explained and articulated far better than I could I would further emphasise, at this stage (and to be honest for the forseeable future) it is and will remain the business itself which is accredited rather than any individual. That said, the responsibility for maintaining the standards across the business is the nominated manager as an individual (although it can be two people). These days this role has to show an ability to effectively and systematically audit both safety performance (on site) and work quality (across a range of completed works inc. pruning and planting) which are of paramount importance to the accreditation. The scheme does include a formal complaints procedure, as part of the quality assurance process, and it is available principally for the appointing client in the event of dissatisfaction and/ or sub-standard work. The (common) exception to this is the Local Authority Tree Officer who can also complain, for instance, where TPO work is not to standard (although they should implement the TCPA here in the first instance.) The other (uncommon) exception is where a group of contractors, and normally all or mainly ArbACs, as a collective make a complaint and again we will consider this altho mindful of 'sour-grapes' and victimisation claims. Hence there is a mechanism in place, whihc I'm sure could be improved, but it has worked to date BUT it relies on customers / Tree Officers / groups of ArbACs bringing the matter to my attention (whihc happens infrequently.) Occasionally I have been sent photo's of works (alledgedly) undertaken by an ArbAC and on veiwing them I've felt compelled to contact said contractor. The outcome is often "that is what the customer wanted" (despite advising them otherwise) and, more worryingly, "that is what the LA instructed" (often not the TO and usually based on cost. Hence, when you see bad work undertaken by an ArbAC there is often, not always I know, a reason why...nonetheless it still frustrates the hell out of me Nothin in life is perfect, the ArbAC scheme isn't BUT I firmly believe it remains the best and most effective opportunity for a business to demonstrate competence AND most of the time, most of the businesses approved do good stuff whihc is usually overlooked. Sorry for the 'War n Peace' n thanks for asking. Paul

Ha, did 'safer' than that, got Mel to do it!

Have a great time all, be merry, be joyful, be peaceful and 'relax'...hopefully! Thank you for your valued contributions all and I look forward to more in 2013. MERRY CHRISTMAS and HAPPY NEW YEAR.. Paul, and all at the Arb Association!

Mark 'et al', An observation, if I may. On one level the answer seems very clear, no CA and no TPO (and probably no planning condition for tree retention, which isn;t really the correct mechanism other than as a temp measure for peripheral trees/hedges) = FELL. However, with previous planning permissions renewed etc. and because of the complexity of the UK planning system should we not stick to our area of expertise and let the qualified and competent 'arb consultants' do their stuff. May be not in this particular case, actually, as a call/email to the TO would probably get the green light, but I often read posts and the variation in interpretations and responses and feel quite nervous. A plea I guess, to leave the consulting to the consultants. Cheers.. Paul

It shouldn't / won't, however don't overlook the importance of refresher / update training. I would suggest / recommend that wherever possible you achieve this through "skills advancement", which is the most cost effective and beneficial way for professional users, (sorry gonna use the CS refs here) i.e. ground: CS31(small tree felling)>CS32(med/large tree felling)>CS34(single windblow)/35(multiple windblow) and aerial: CS39(chainsaw from rope & harness)>CS41(sectional felling with rigging)>'advanced rigging' course(partic. for CS41s pre-2000). Speaking with several of the ArbAC assessors who do legal work / accident investigation they all say the HSE/courts seem more interested in "when did any refresher or updating training take place?" rather than what particular NPTC etc. units are held....interstingly enough. See HSE AFAG 805 'Training and Certification' for further info (copy below). Cheers all.. Paul afag805.pdf

Robert, Tea n biccies = :, 3 course lunch (or even 1 course) = ...coz FoC day. You raise an interesting point, and indeed their may be a 'previous' ArbAC in attendance so you can ask him directly. In practice I acknowledge that ArbAC has greater potential value in the commercial / LA sector rather than domestic but there are, I beleive, opportunities here where someone is looking to 'stand out from the crowd'. I also acknowledge that, in the main, 'price is King' and the cheapest man wins...but with more discerning clients who like their trees they may be willing to pay a little more for the contractor with an industry 'quality mark'. Ideally I acknowledge that awareness of the quality mark beforehand would be great but, in reality, other than CORGI/GAS SAFE and maybe NICEIC (for electricians), and perhaps Guild of Master Craftsmen (???), 99% of 'Joe Public' wont have heard of any trade associations / industry accreditations let alone 'ARB Approved Contractor.' What we aim to do is assist the contractor to promote themsleves as an ArbAC and explain what's involved to their clients and of course remind them of the complaints procedure if their unhappy and can't resolve it with you. Sorry, I'm doubtless 'over-staying' my welcome now. Hope to see you there. Cheers.. Paul

POST- Christmas shopping in Princess Street too maybe? :-) Hope to see you there. Paul

Oooow, let me see, how long have you got Robert, err 3 currently: 1. Arboretum Internationale in Perth (Paul Hanson) 2. Cut Above Specialist Tree Services in Newton (Chris White) 3. QTS Group in Strathaven (Barry McLeish) To be honest it's a little bit "chicken and egg" scenario and hence there is much opportunity. We've done some recent 'marketing' with the Scottish Tree Officers Group (STOG) to raise awareness and had some good responses. Interested..? Paul

It may still be useful in that setting a business up following a recognised model, which in part is what 'ARB Approved' is about, can help (particularly if you think 'ARB Approved' may be the way forward for the business in the future.) On pre-requisite that would, unfortunately, exclude you from applying now is that you need to have been 'trading' for min. 2 year period (and the nominated manager needs to have 5 years expereince.) Still, you're welcomed to join us. Paul

Dear 'Scottish / Scotland based' contractors I will be delivering a FoC, 'no obligation', workshop on how to become arb approved on Tuesday 8th Jan @ The Royal Highland Showground, near Edinburgh Airport. I apologise for the short notice but we've only just had confirmation of the min. nos. we need to ensure it runs, but there's definately room for more! The workshop is aimed principally at small business contractors, i.e. "less than 5 staff", and if you can secure a Local Authority Tree Officer nomination beforehand (essentially supporting you and confirming you undertake good quality tree work) then with your attendnace you could 'enter the draw' at the end of the day for a free assessment (saving £495 +VAT), or 2x half-price (saving £247.50 +VAT) assessments (to be undertaken 26-28 Feb. 2013) If you wish to join us we need to know by Fri. 4th Jan. 2013 at the absolute latest and ideally ASAP. Please reply to this post, or 'pm' me, if you wish to know more. Thanks for your time. Paul

Hi Jo, No law as such, essentially HSE will refer you back to manufacturers recommendations regarding standard replacemnet periods or 'shelf life' (see guidance below.) Helmets are generally recommended for replacement every 3 years of sooner if manufacturer says so or subject to significnat incident. If you are varying from this then potentially your are on 'thin ice', so to speak, and would need to have records of periodic inspection by a competent person concluding the PPE was still effective and 'fit for purpose'. However, the old adage "if in doubt, throw it out", must be borne in mind. Personal protective equipment at work (Second edition) - HSE Books See here for a copy of the full PPE ACOP (Approved Code of Practice whihc has 'quasi-legal' status, meaning you should adhere to it.) Cheers.. Paul PPE ACOP stmt(121218).docx PPE(indg174).pdf

Why? There's nothing eliteist (sorry abt spelling) about being an AA member or ArbAC, it's simply a matter of choice is it not? Some are, and will, some aren't and won't. I beleive those that do, do so out of choice, or because a contract or client requires it, but I don;t beleive they consider themselves above the pack. Or maybe I've missed your point completely and your comments are aimed at me? Sorry, really struggling with this one Paul

.......sorry Andy. Please have a 'fantastic weekend'. Take care mate. Paul

HI Albedo, thanks for the post. Like it or not, as I know you know, H&S is increasingly the way of the world, rightly or wrongly, and I do my best to interpret it and help others to comply. Afterall that's what sets us/you apart from the 'not-so-reputable' element, in part. Unfortunately whilst we do seek to gaurantee high quality workmanship the reality is it's (too) often outside the control of the business quoting / appointed. If Mrs Miggins wants her tree 'topping' and despite best efforts to educate her otherwise she sticks to her guns, what do you (or an ArbAC) do when you've got a living to earn...better to do it safely with a reputable contractor yeah? Increasingly too we are seeing LA spesc that leave much to be desired but it's often the highways engineers and/or 'bean-counters' influencing this. Hence quality is indeed very hard to control at source. The ArbAC SCheme will never be the CORGI / GAS SAFE equivalent for tree surgery, it's simply not BIG enough, not dangerous enough (to 3rd parties / MoPs) and doesn't generate enough revenue to even start to appear on the central government radar whihc is where it would need to come from. As I've said many times, the only option is for self-regulation and even suggesting such in this industry is a big enough challenge Cheers.. Paul

Thought we'd got over that one.

Hi Tom, to be honest it will do as much or as little as you want. Depends how much you engage with the orgainsation as it engages with you, updates knowledge, networking etc. are some key benefits of AA membership. I'm pleased to hear you think only half your clients won't have heard of us, I'd suggest it's probably nearer 99% to be honest...but then how many other trade bodies / accreditations (other than CORGI/GAS SAFE or maybe NICEIC) would they know...why should they? What we need to do better is 'arm' AA contractors with stuff to help educare poeple as to what's involved and why they are accredited. Give me a call / pm should you wish to discuss further. Thanks.. Paul

Thanks Andy, useful stuff. Cheers.. Paul

Ok, thanks Steve, that's useful. Have agood weekend. Paul