AA Teccie (Paul)

Well done Rob, fingers crossed now. Paul

Door security will be doing the 'egg n flour' frisk....so bake a cake instead, ha! Lokk forward to meeting with some of you there. Cheers all.. Paul

'Belt and braces'...secure a contract / terms of engagement, in writing and signed by both parties (and you have a copy) which clearly states you are working under the 'main contractors' EL & PL effectively as an employee. Cheers.. Paul

ON the legal angle (as I understand it) you can 'cut back to the boundary' both branches and roots, i.e. above, and below, ground parts. However if, as a direct result of your actions, the tree is deemed unsafe requiring removal, or dies, then there may be an opportuntiy for a claim for loss of amenity (although I'm not aware this has ever been tested in the courts.) Either way I think the law would expect the affected party to act reasonably and communicate to the tree owner his intended actions (when so extreme)...naive?, maybe! Cheers.. Paul

HSE have a 'small business trade association forum' to which the AA contributes. One of the key roles is about reducing the amount of paperwork and bureaucracy affecting small businesses whilst ensuring adequate control of workplace hazards and risk. I wouldn't be afraid of approaching HSE, they're much more about education and promoting good practice these days rather than prosecuting and enforcement. Cheers.. Paul

Hi all, Just a quick ('yeah right!') further clarification here on the 'national competence award' and 'other' options. Put simply (ME all over!) there aren't anyway, the 'nca' was an outline proposal by Lantra Awards back in 1998 which has never materialised and there are no 'other' options. Suffice then to say that, curently, NPTC is the only way for chainsaw 'competenece'. Thanks all. Paul

Hi Arbre, Previous two years is what HSE recommend (indefinately, electronically, is the best option I would suggest.) Cheers.. Paul

I would suggest your mate takes appropriate legal advice here and reports the incident to HSE. Things like this just shouldn't happen and suitable professionals should be engaged for specific tasks. Hope he recovers soon. Paul

Hi Lisa, if the Arboricultural Association, an industry body for tree surgeons/arborists, can assist in anyway with your production please let me know. We operate a national accreditation scheme for tree surgery contractors demonstrating good business practice, customer care and of course safe and proficient tree / hedge work to national standards and can put people in touch with local 'approved' contractors. The scheme is not mandatory and does not imply that those who are not approved are not reputable, competent and safe, it is simply an opportunity for those who so wish to achieve independent, 3rd party accreditation. Regards, and good luck (you'll find a wealth of good information and assistance here at 'Arbtalk!') Paul

SORRY don't mean to 'hog' this thread but just wanted to make a general comments in relation to 3rd party accreditation schemes, inc. 'ArbAC'! With any of them, very seldom does it mean additional work will automatically come your way. At best it will often mean previously 'closed doors' are opened and thereafter it often boils down to "pounds, shillings n pence." However, those businesses who have embraced the 'ArbAC' accreditation, and more particularly now it is combined with CHAS, and actively marketed themselves effectively (something we would like to help more with in the future by providing some 'tools' to assist) have certainly gained market share and benefitted (often with external input on how best to go about this.) To conclude the accreditation schemes can, I believe, result in more business for you BUT you still have to go out there are 'sell your wares'...effectively! Cheers all.. Paul

It was actually SAFEcontractor who withdrew from the SSIP (Safety Scheme in Procurement) probably because of commercial concerns, and hence there was no deemed to satisfy arrangement with CHAS. However they are now back on board AND meeting with me to discuss 'ArbAC' and opportuinties for a similar deemed to satisfy agreement next wek....fingers crossed! CHAS wholly recognise the robustness, and credibility, of the 'ArbAC' for exactly the reason you mention, i.e. we DO visit you at your premises, AND on site, AND at several previous work sites. CHAS have circa 450 'buyers' (proposective clients) on their database with near on 40,000 contractors...plus of course many 'other' clients who use CHAS but are not registered n their db as a 'buyer'. In terms of H&S 'Stage 1' compliance assessments, they are singularly the largest accreditation body. Hence this is why we partnered with them. Cheers.. Paul

Hi Andy, thanks for the post! Fair comment, PUWER Reg 9 (Training) states that where a chainsaw is to be used on, or in, the tree then a 'certificate' of competence should be obtained. As you say theereafter the only option I'm aware of is NPTC. I will enquire further about any 'other' options, or national competence awards, with my colleague Simon Richmond tomorrow. Cheers.. Paul

Hi 'Sky Huck', hope all's well! I can guess the answer but I'll pose the question anyway...would it be worth you doing the NPTC LOLER course...then you can inpsect your own kit and produce a certificate legally without fear of redress? I'm now running for cover....aghhhhh! Cheers, tc! Paul

Also 'Hort Week' on line (FoC) advertise some tenders but tend to be the large ones with LAs etc.

APOLOGIES all as I haven't gone through all the posts so this is probably a repeat! The LOLER ACOP describes the competent person, for 'through examination', is someone expereinced with a good understanding in the use and applictaion of the equipment, amongst other things, and it is here many 'none Arb LOLER' inspectors may fall down. Perhaps if they've done the NPTC LOLER inspectors course, and passed the stringent exams, they may meet the requirements better but it still doesn't fully embrace the spirit of the ACOP (thank you Mr Moore for that classic phrase!) Thanks all.. Paul

Hi there, apologies for the delay in replying but I've only just heard back from NPTC. The reply from Frances Hirst (HSE), email: [email protected], is that an NPTC certifciate would be required to work legally in the UK. The advice from Steve Hewitt (NPTC), email: [email protected], is that your previous qualification and experience would count towards 'training', as accreditation for prior learning, but again that the NPTC certificate of competence (CoC) is required. This confirms my understanding of the situation and I do not think they will accept ISA Cert. Arb. as evidence of a national competence award as there is no practical skills assessment involved...but by all means ask. Best regards, and good luck! Paul

Perhaps this should also be reported under RIDDOR as a 'near miss' which could have resulted in a 'major injury'...or worse. If you are able to include further details I will liaise with HSE with a view to informing the wider industry. Please disclose all relevant information that will help your peers and colleagues to avoid a similar occurence. THANK YOU for sharing this and thank goodness nothing serious occured as a result. Take care out there..! Paul

Good luck..!

Single handed chainsaw use...worth the risk? One handed chainsaw use...pros n cons! Sorry, so late, just a couple of thoughts. 'Clutching at Saws' is very funny...just a shame it's tinged with sadness given recent events (that said no idea whether one handed use was a factor!) Cheers.. Paul

Yup, and CS36 was cross-cutting whihc is now included in CS30.2 (I think.) CS41 is 'Undertake Sectional Felling Operations' and includes the use of climbing irons and lowering ropes, i.e. a rigging system. IF your ticket is much more than 5 years old I would strongly rceommend an update. Not only to meet the HSE recs. for update trainig requirements BUT because so much has changed with avialable technologies and techniques. In this regard ensure your 'training provider' is well versed in advanced, modern rigging systems and has a grasp of the recent(ish) HSE research outcomes. Cheers all.. Paul

HI 'Harmony Arb', I think (aghhh, dangerous territory!) that the proposal is, the AA Tech Cert as was (and this title may change to 'Arb QCF level 4'), will become a level 4 qualification available as either 'Certificate' or 'Diploma' based on the number of notional hours of study undertaken. The RFS Prof Dip, as was, will become the 'Arb QCF level 6' (I think), so will still be at a higher level. SIMPLES eh?! Not sure why all this is changing, I think in part to give more recognition at level 2 perhpas, but see Further guide to qualifications and careers in arboriculture for further info. Good luck..! Cheers.. Paul PS Again as I understand it, this does not mean if you have a current level 3 Tech Cert it will aoutomaticlaly be accelerated to 'level 4', additional study will be required to achive this...I think...."MR Dowson, where are you???"

Don't forget to have a look at the HSE riging research findings at RR668: Evaluation of current rigging and dismantling practices used in arboriculture A bit heavy going in parts but can be scan read n revisited with some good piccies to emphasise some do's n dont's! Be careful out there..! Paul

Hi DJM, I'm sure you'll get many good contacts from here, and probably more local to you, but you could also check out the following link for 'ARB' accredited contractors in your area: Directory of Tree Surgeons - Arboricultural Association Good luck, and hope the job goes well! Paul (I manage the scheme for the Association)

Thank YOU for the opportunity to comment, always happy to do so. Cheers 'High Scale' n have good weekend. Paul

Look at it from another angle, if anything untoward happened (even if not realted to the poor condition of the tree, nonetheless it would be scrutinised), could you defend having climbed it...did you have a written method statement or a justification on your risk assessment for so doing...is it defensible? I'm NOT saying the tree couldn't be climbed, nor indeed am I saying it can be, but the justification for so doing is down to you as the 'competent' person considering the WaH Regs and the requirement for adequate planning / organisation and supervision. Also what about 'aerial rescue', is there adequate options/strength of branches for that to be undertaken...God forbid. See the WaH Policy for TW Ops Help becoming an ARB Approved Contractor for further reading and considerations. Also you have mentioned rigging, which is probably a good thing...that you haven't mentioned it hopefully means you don't intend to...I would 'suggest'. Others are better placed than I to offer their opinions and justifications, either way but I certainly would be concerned if we were presented with that situation on an 'ArbAC' assessment. It would certainly have to be a very nice, calm day and with a very carefully considered approach, ideally documented in a method statement or at least on the site risk assessment (again see above link for advice on both + templates) and a very competent and expereinced arborist involved...and no rigging. Even then I'd still be concerned! Take care out there..! Paul