AA Teccie (Paul)

ALL (if I may) - please be aware that whilst this thread has focused on the climbing aspect of working at height (in trees) compliance with the W@H Regs., and the associated industry ICoP, involves planning and decision making following the 'hierarchy principles' and you must have a robust procedure for this which justifies, for instance, "why" a MEWP is not used for the job (the Table on p.26 of the ICoP is very useful / informative here.) HSE, and previous prosecutions / accident investigations, have clearly adopted a "benefit of hindsight" approach were a climber has fallen out of a tree and been injured, where the tree was MEWP accessible, asking "why" the MEWP wasn't used and that's why you need to have a robust decision making procedure in place. Thanks for reading.. Paul PS the ICoP is viewable here , and can be downloaded as a pdf. file (30mb) Cookies check EDITION.PAGESUITE-PROFESSIONAL.CO.UK Guidance Notes - Industry Code of Practice for Arboriculture – Tree Work at Height ...and can now be purchased hard copy - see Arboricultural Association - Book Shop WWW.TREES.ORG.UK A source of publications, guidance notes and leaflets for arboriculturists. Competitively priced available to members...

Sorry 'Swinny' I missed your post last night. In answer to your question, under the current ICoP, the default position is a primary system + a back-up essentially at all times unless it is not practicable to maintain it for specific, short-duration tasks. (an example of which may be during change-overs on ascent.) The associated Technical Guide 1 - Tree Climbing and Aerial Rescue (TG1) should be published very soon and that will aid interpretation of the ICoP and cite practical examples etc. to aid application for climbers. Regards, Paul

Hi Jamie, the ICoP only requires the 'primary system' to provide an uninterrupted descent to ground, the 'back-up' (2nd system) is a fail-to-safe to prevent a fall in the event the primary system fails. I can't comment on City & Guilds NPTCs interpretation / application of the ICoP but perhaps it precedes its publication (and if their requirement exceeds its recommendations, and I can see the benefits of such as in the event of failure of the primary system if the back-up can allow for a descent to ground you've effectively got 2 primary systems...AKA , then no bad thing perhaps.) Regards, Paul PS I believe Lantra are reviewing their training in light of the ICoP so it will be interesting to see their...application.

To clarify "The Regs", in practice the ICoP, do not require the "backup system", ie the lanyard as you refer, to be capable of getting you to ground but stopping you falling. If you chose to use a system that allows you to get to ground, which obviously has benefits, that is your choice/decision given the circumstances and personal preferences. An interpretation/expectation if not, is that the aerial rescue provision will get you to ground. Just wanted to clarify that point. Regards Paul

Hi Stuart, we are currently working with Treelife to make the ISA CA course an e-learning opportunity so "watch this space." In terms of its value/recognition in NZ, whilst I'm sure it will aid 'employability' I'm not sure of its value, if at all, for obtaining a Visa as it's not a formal qualification (its a certification) and hence wouldn't be registered on their qualifications database and wouldn't get points for it. To the OP - this is my understanding of the situation but please enquire with NZ Visa office to clarify. Regards Paul

Try to get the hospital estate manager to speak to the property owner (to "notify them") so they don't give you any grief on the day.

My impression of NZ is that their practical skills are contained within NZ academic 'arb' qualifications and when they come to work in the UK they have to do the NPTCs etc. to make them employable within the UK / HSE system. Hence, n really sorry about this, but with the absence of a supporting UK academic qualification you might find your NPTCs are of minimal value and don't have an equivalent for visa etc. purposes but I'm sure NZ employers would value / recognise UK NPTCs...but not sure that really helps. Hopefully someone who can be more help will come along very soon. Good luck with everything. Cheers Paul

Hi Jack, the 'Professional Tree Surveying' course to which you refer is probably the Lantra - Professional Tree Inspection course ('PTI') and this is increasingly becoming a 'must have,' or at least a very desirable 'should have', to access the tree inspection / tree surveying industry / role. Interesting that you are doing a 'forestry' management degree but looking to enter 'arb'...do the college/Uni offer an 'arb' (or 'Urban Forestry') option you could transfer to maybe or do they by any chance have an arrangement with Myerscough that you could transfer there as they offer 'arb' degrees. Other than that there are a range of short courses for fungi, P&D etc. that would be useful be presume you will cover this in your degree course anyway. Good luck with everything. Regards, Paul

Hi Paul, apologies I missed your further posts. The technical guide TG1 is in the process of being revised in light of the recent industry consultation and hence we await the final version which will undoubtedly have further detail about back up systems and SRT/SRWP etc. Thereafter it is expected to form the basis of updated training from Lantra and colleges etc. Regards Paul PS did you see the published SRT research project by Ben Rose and Robert Knott available on the website at www.trees.org.uk which will doubtless also feed into training.

Hi, there are many independent training providers, and assessors, available. As a start point try here Aerial Cutting of Trees with a Chainsaw Using Free-fall Techniques | Lantra Awards WWW.LANTRA.CO.UK This course will provide all the information and demonstrate the practical skills required for those undertaking a regulated... and I'm sure City & Guilds / NPTC have an equivalent on their website (for assessors.) Regards, Paul

Hi Paul, more 'technical clarity' is detailed in the Technical Guide 1- tree climbing and aerial rescue (TG1) currently a draft document. See Arb Assn website at www.trees.org.uk for further info. Regards Paul

ALL - please see Timon's post above (far more succinct than I could ever post...thanks Timon.) "Use of the back-up" (as per the ICoP p.33) is key and the DRAFT Technical Guide goes some way to indicating the various ways this may be achieved (p31 I think.) Regards, Paul

"Get real Paul", I hear a certain someone saying, but any chance the client would be amenable to a phased approach to hopefully spur some lower generation of new foliage before the final 'whacking' maybe? Hornbeam, with good vitality / health, can tolerate pruning IME but if a mature specimen "less is always more." Cheers, Paul PS As a point of reference, BS3998 (industry standard for tree works / pruning) implies not removing more than 1/3rd foliage bearing material in a single operation...ideally.

A couple of really useful 'general arboriculture' books to consider: Arboricultural Association - Haynes Tree Owners’ Workshop Manual WWW.TREES.ORG.UK A source of publications, guidance notes and leaflets for arboriculturists. Competitively priced available to members... ..and Arboricultural Association - Arborists' Certification Study Guide WWW.TREES.ORG.UK A source of publications, guidance notes and leaflets for arboriculturists. Competitively priced available to members... The latter being a potential alternative L2/3 qualification / 'certification' opportunity. Good luck with your studies and I hope you get some clarity and guidance soon. Paul

...or possibly inonotus dryadeous

"Starters for ten.." Meripulus

Hi Alex, I'm afraid you've lost me somewhat here ...sorry! The current situation certainly offers more choice, in effect, than the previous one and, respectfully, this is the final opportunity to voice your opinions regarding the industry technical guidance (at this 2nd time of consulting, after the review of the ICoP, which was also consulted with industry on.) Clearly this whole issue, including the aspect of accident stats etc., will be viewed much different / much more going forward. Please spend some time with the DRAFT document and let us have your views. Thank you. Regards, Paul

Provided you have an effective 'backup system', in case the primary system fails for any reason, which I think is what you are proposing, then that's fine. Many climbers have chosen to adopt '2-rope working', in many/most cases, to very good effect so certainly worth considering as an option. Probably academic, but just to clarify, that climbing systems we use fall under the 'fall protection' category rather than 'fall arrest.' Cheers, Paul

The guidance cites the requirement for a "backup system" to meet the requirements of the W@H Regs. which may be 2 ropes but can be achieved by other means (see sects 6.5 & 6.6 p.31-32). Regards Paul

BUMP...and with the document attached as a pdf for your convenience. REMEMBER this is your opportunity to influence the industry standard for tree climbing operations. Thanks in anticipation and to ensure your comments are considered please reply via the online survey and by 7th August. Thanks all, Paul Tech-Guide-1-Draft-Consultation.pdf

"How good is that", very impressive stuff...and reassuring to know it reveals no great surprises (I don't think) so.perhaps it's best application /use is where tree retention is desired. An obvious statement, forgive me, but when forming an opinion and before making any recommendations don't just base this on the Picus, see / assess the overall tree/structure and listen to your intuition too...experience counts for so much...albeit what a helping hand Cheers all Paul

Silver(?) Lime / Linden (Tilia tomentosa - botanical name) maybe..

HSE require you as the employer to determine competence n capability, and record this I would recommend, n assign tasks accordingly. Thereafter if intending being in UK for 12months or more to undertake relevant qualifications, ie NPTC or Lantra (as directed above.) Regards Paul

According to the guidance 'notice in writing', ie email (ideally with a response/ acknowledgement to confirm receipt) AND 5 'working days', ie not weekends, then on Day 6 you can proceed. If you don't have a reply/acknowledgement I would call the TO to check. (Interestingly just reading the guidance on the '5-day notice' and it appears only to be detailed under the section relating to Dead Tree and Branches, albeit clarifying the latter does not require prior notice.) Regards Paul

Hi Stew..."yes" the revised TG1 (Tree Climbing) will be out for industry consultation very soon. Regards, Paul