Dilz

just found this vid, nice refresher on the setting up and although the voice is quite, the retreival is easy enough to understand [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vllcoFNdOlg&NR=1]YouTube - ‪Installing a ring to ring cambium saver from the ground‬‏[/ame]

after just reading a thread about some one having trouble getting money from a customer (the non paying swine:thumbdown:!!!) i noticed a comment that there should be a union for arborists, and as far as i know in the uk there isnt. I have used the union over in sweden when an employer refused to pay me, and although its going to take a long time, progress is being made. We also have union reps visit us on site when working on the big government projects over in sweden, who make sure we aren't being exploited and recently a group of Lithuanians got help as it turned out they were getting ripped off by their employer. These unions deal with forestry and arb (comes under parks and nature) related things all the time. In the uk as far as i know there is no arb union, but i reckon there must be a forestry one? I think if there was a union, that was set up to deal with matters such as non payment by clients, employers not providing ppe etc. ( i could have done with one with one of my first employers - paid below minimum wage, made me buy all my own kit, no holiday pay, i.e treated me like i was self employed whilst not paying self employed rates, i put up with it as a) i didnt know any better b) i was desperate for a start in the industry) I wouldnt have the first clue about setting up a union, but i'm sure there are some people that would know, maybe something through the arb association? or some such. naturaly there would have to be guide lines for everything, but imagine how much stress it could save if, like so many of us have experienced, a customer refused to pay, you make a phone call to the union, send them the details and they take care of it for you. just an idea, dont know if it would be any good but would be interested if any one else has got any views on this?

my copy of tree climbers companion got flinched years ago.... but i recall and quite afternoon spent learning how to set up a cambium save from the ground, will have to give it a shot.

so much anger here......and bloody right! look at their house! they have a D4 tight fisted 'lots of stuff that cant be said' when i do a quote i always make notes on the job, access etc on paper in my diary etc, i write the quote and show it to the client and if they are happy with that i get them to sign, even if they say they are going to try other companies i explain to them that this isnt an agreement for me to carry out the works, this is a record of the price i have quoted, then if they decide to take it, its there. Verbal is legally binding, what gets me is if we were builders we could quote em 1k and at the end of the job say 'ooo sorry luv but it was abit more than we thought' and slap an extra 500quid on top and they wouldnt say bugger all..

looks like it gives you reasonable control when out on the tips, i had a go with my mates lock jack and that was the biggest issue i had with it. were you running it through a regular cambium saver, i couldnt quite tell from the vid. Just ordered my self some poison ivy and a new tree motion so my budget is spent for now but i reckon the spider jack is going to be on my wish list, especialy if i get more pruning work coming in - which i hope so - only one reduction on a mature oak tree in the last 4 months, the rest has been take downs so its not so great hearing that they arent so good when blocking down.... also what helmet cam do you use???

will be interested to see what the lab has to say.

Awesome, I'm itching to have a got at some forestry horse work, though have no experience, does anyone know of a good place to start? and over here in the sweden they have nordsvensk häst which is a nice breed and looks perfect for forestry work.

learn from the ground first, you got to know how to let stuff, run, feed in or take up slack, snatch etc, watch how other people do it, then start small, observe how different sized pieces re-act, where to tie on for a disired effect, best way to do this is on the job with a crew that know what they are doing. and get rid of your pegs!! no matter how hard you try, that little pg you leave for a nice absiel down will bugger up everything! and as a rule of thumb, use big kit on small pieces.

how does that work? surley the throw line must run over a branch or something so you can control the descent? or do you drop the throw line back down to you before pulling out the cambium saver?..... these things do ring a bit of gimmiky expense but then I can see their uses especialy as retrievable false crotches, I use to think the hitch climber was nothing but an expensive pulley wheel that looked a bit fancy......now i have two.....

i use to run a pulley wheel on my cambium saver, intend to do so again soon, cut off the small ring and stick a maillon in instead....reckon i should get my hands on spiderjack for a play around before i buy one...

cheers¨peter

i appolgise for what i know is rather childish remark about the accent and by no means do i say that he doen't know what he is talking about and was meant i'm sorry if anyone has taken personal offence to this, it was not my intention and from now on will try to take a more considerate approach to my posting i dont argue that the technique is better than dropping it on the ground, i guess i should have a go at trying to work around a tree with my throwline hanging in it, and see how it works for the groundies dragging beneath it before i should pass judgemnt on if it is or not a good technique, i guess the mental image i have of it getting snagged in all the branches when the goundies are dragging out and marred what actually comes across as a well thought out piece of kit, and one that i will probably be buying or an art when i treat my self to a spider jack for christmass. sorry if i rubbed any one up the wrong way on this matter

just looked on FR'J's website and if you combine the lowering kit and the redirect kit its almost the same as what i'm after less the slings, and a krab, and it isnt all that much cheaper.....

i like to use krabs and slings, when one piece is on its way down i can be geting in to position, put a sling on and as soon as the rope is on its clipped in and away, same for on the ground clip and its off, maybe not save you hours on the job but i like it when rigging gets a good rhythm going, and in the grand scheme of things the cost of a couple of steel krabs isnt that much, but dont let this replace knot knowledge, i dont need krabs i just like to have them as i feel they make things quicker but i can as well do with out them. Its perhaps a bit like saying you dont need an art positioner and a tree motion harness when a weaver (not slagging of weaver harnesses they are in fact awesome) and perhaps a cambium saver if you are feeling fancy. though i guess at the end of the day, you make do with what you get for the most part and it becomes what you work best with as you know no other.......... where can i get the tennex from? also have been looking at the stein kits fr-j's may well buy one of these and then top up with the extra bits but got to sit down and price it, also part of me really wants the paydyne lowering line, not sure why bar it ticks all the right boxes.

not familiar tennex/yalex.... though it has just reminded me i got many meters of good 3 strand polyprop in the garage that i have forgotten all about, not sure on the rating of it though but dead easy to splice....i thing its 20mm or so thick...any one know if this would be good enough for the dead eyes?

indeed there isnt really a logical explination, and i am infact considering getting the larger 2000, maybe the bore will create too much friction on the 14mm rope, i had a play with the 2000, cant recall which rope except it needed milking like crazy, it was 16mm and until we started dropping big stuff there was too much friction to make the branches run smooth - also any list of rigging kit should include thick leather gloves! dont scrimp on these, cheap ones will burn through on the first day, expensive ones last a week! i knew a crew that use to have one welding glove in the kit box for rigging.

Oooooooooooooooooo....that looks like it smarted!

where are the stein rigging kits available from? I'm putting together a fairly complete kit at the momment so this thread is of interest. the short cords are to be spliced into dead eye slings, 60 mete yale polydyne 14mm 3m whoopie sling 16 mm ISC medium block + 4m split tail 16mm Stein RC1000 2 X 80cm slings 1 X 60cm sling 1 X 120cm sling 8m polydyne 16 mm 6m polydyne 12 mm ISC light weight pulley 70kn 2 x steel krabs and great big expensive bag to put it all in.... looking at just over 600 squid + the Vodka and Tonic

blimey! going to have to show this to some of the swedes i work with, We use lugalls all the time on the rail out here, when the guys first come on the contracts they are all safe but now especially because of the heat people get , whats the word.... relaxed? careless? just because it hasnt happened the 99 times before doesnt mean it aint going to happen the 100th time you do something. Some guy was telling me about a first aid course he did where he dealt with serious injuries, lots of fake blood and guts hanging out, how to stem the bleeding from a severed hand etc, sounds betted than the first aid course i did, sat in a room with a bunch of office dwellers all going 'ooooooo paper cuts are soooo nasty......' I think hes just joined the forum will see if i can get him to post up the details. all the best to your mate - be a while before hes doing any dirty dancing

do you guys who use the spider jack only use it with an Art positioner? it looks like to get the best out of it, you need this or a pulley saver, which then doubles the initial outlay.

from my understanding, if you dont use 'bona fide subbys' i.e they have there own insurance and use labour only subcontractors then you must have employees liability which will push up your premium a bit, At the end of the day a few hundred quid a year for your own ass to be covered isnt that much, it also makes you look and sound more legit, keep a copy in your van, quote book etc, to show customers should they ask. Also dont be afriad to ask other companies for copies of their insurance when you sub to them, If you are the bloke with the saw in his hand should it all go wrong you can bet your back teeth that some one some where will want to try and make you pay for it all.

i want to see a vid of some one actually working with one, not in a comp or any thing, but doing say a reduction on an ash tree in the rain or some such thing.

good point, well said, in no way should climbing kit that isn't up to standard be used, to do other wise would be adding needless risk to an already risky job, and for the record nearly all my current kit is heading for the bin or to be butchered for spares, as for the hitch question, i have two ropes, sappy trees and none sappy, the knut on my sappy rope is a real pain to use, the knot on my flip line jams with sap all the time... my VT that i use for pruning is fairly slick, and needs a bit of caressing from time to time Dont listen to me kids...only use kit in good condition!

also what if you dont have a spliced eye? It lacks clarity on this matter.....or are us humble non splicers not worthy of such a genius contrived contraption?

just watched a vid on Hbros site about the pulley saver, not much else to do on a rainy Sunday afternoon, At first i thought this piece of kit was just an expensive gimmicky pile of rope and bits, but I can see how it has some uses especially on trees with dead tops, missing leaders etc, but my one gripe with this vid and therefore the kit is this, When it comes to retrieving the pulley saver from up in the tree attach a throwline? what the hell? how is that not just going to get in the way? get tangled up, be dragged through the chipper with the brash? throwlines are purposed designed to get tangled in stuff arent they? Also despite it being best practice etc, how many of you guys on here (and this is where i may get unstuck) use two lines? an access line and a working line In anything but the biggest and ugliest trees??? the vid sounded so good until that point, bar the annoying yank accent.