Bundle 2

" slightly patronising and condescending " Perhaps it just the way these mawled and humiliated trees make me feel!!

" Often trees like these are or have been neglected pollards for a very long time (usually down to little or no money available) I have been often asked to ‘re-pollard back to original pollard-points’ because they have lapsed and the knuckles are in danger of failing. Better to do this than risk someone getting injured" You'll get no argument from me on this issue. As lapsed pollards are they really worth the costs involved in the current management strategy? "so please dont knock the L/A's just because you think they are soft targets." John, I am entitled to my opinion and for the record, criticism is probably wasted on soft targets anyway!!

"out of interest, how high is the pedestal you have put yourself on..?" I dont know mate....I take it you have issue with my view...opiniona are like ar***oles, we all got one! I am not criticising the arborist so much as venting bile at an aspect often seen...and I note... "imo they should be taken down and more suitable trees planted in their place " I totally agree with your appraisal of the situation and would nt mind betting many of us will, so then, am I so high and mighty to say as much.

" long as they're done regularly and their condition is monitored there's no problem,," ...No problem....? " but councils have alot of ground to cover so to speak....." Whilst this may be true, it is a problem, apparently a regular problem which requires additional monitoring as a result....An expensive and antiquated waste of time and money that looks sh*t imo Poor , lazy management that shows arboriculture in worst of lightsand arborists as uneducated and uncaring individuals who care only for their "good wage.."

I think it must do mate....regardless of data one way or another frankly.....but hey, just to be sure, lets all do nothing and watch to see if that fecked tree fails whilst a target is within the falling zone....?!!<><><<<<<

So to recap, it seems we know who not to use and what to look out for...even how much it will cost perhaps.....can no-one recommend an underwriter that would offer appropriate cover for survey and risk/hazard assessment, condition report and BS 5837 work?

Crack me up......pg 209 of above article...... Apparently the tiny feet of pigeons is responsible for soil compaction...!! Some interestlng insights on the glyphosate debate as seen in 1982 also.......enjoy!!

As this thread was concerned with tree roots, morphology and soil root environment issues.....This from 1982. " The ecology of roots etc..." Thomas O Perry. http://joa.isa-arbor.com/articles.asp?JournalID=1&VolumeID=8&IssueID=8

"Thermal imaging isn’t the panacea to all ills though it is by far the best I’ve seen , once an anomaly has been identified it then leads to further investigation.." It would appear to be.....if it can be used in conjunction with associated systems. It is the all seeing eye. It makes good our blind spot and crucially fulfils an inate desire to manage trees within an acceptable risk parameter.

"Well until the science is proven i am happy to stay ...." It is science that informs us of the physiology of trees and which plays such a pivotal part in the management decisions ( allegedly) ...... "Tree officers do know how easy it is to miss read findings...." This is still science but open to interpretation.....(and misinterpretation by default...) What, suddenly its not 100%....? There are no guarantees. A healthy tree may fail. " a couple of mins with the tree officer and and hammer" will still continue" quote This is not "GOOD" science.....you are losing sight of the arguments. If you cant see science from "over cautious ".... how can you tell pro from con.....hence it offers nothing to the debate 'cos you killed it..... .At the moment I can see operators making wrong calls (on unsafe trees) and ending up in court. " This is a gross generalisation....

"I think there is a place for decay detection but it needs to be 100% proven.At the moment I can see operators making wrong calls (on unsafe trees) and ending up in court. It's far to easy for the manufacture to claim that the operator miss read the data etc and walk away." QUOTE. Really....If this statement is meant to be an interpretation of the reality...please give some (numerous) examples. I dont believe this is anything more than a biased opinion frankly.....It is not a view point I can condone and offers nothing constuctive to the debate .....Conservative tree care for the ignorant ! " I've never come across a TO that will get an injunction to stop a tree been felled once a damning report goes in and can we really blame them? " No , frequently the other way round... " You could have tested the tree with every gadget known to man " Amazing and yet still you are not prepared to stand by the science? "- its negligence that would be your downfall. " quote Tony. Yes, I would have to say this is right. I take the view that unnecessary loss of trees is a form of negligence....poor arboricultural standard .

Good link.......

Where's this goin' then......? Baron von "Sorenson"...drug dealer extaordinaire.. or maybe you jus got some sort of "bitch" thing goin' on bro'........you wanna be be a bit careful what you say ......

As at least a couple of yous' seem involved in education and for anyone else interested frankly.....this website is the home of past articles that appeared in Arb Journal....no skin off my nose posting http://joa.isa-arbor.com/browse.asp?Journals_ID=1 ( I spose that should be in useful threads' thread.....! )

Following from subject areas mentioned by Marcus...I tend to agree that tree management decisions are sometimes far too prescribed by recipe formula...and some frankly poor management choices made as a result....but that this emotive statement can be remedied by way of appropriate investigation...Only the professional in you can determine this level of resource for the individual cases...needless to say I'm sure we will all have a different take on the same situation.... I digress...Steve: On wound and wood drying...an axtract from Shigo's work " The Man!! " http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=shigo+wound+closure&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=mez&q=shigo+crack+drying&btnG=Search&meta= and from Mattheck's work.... Sorry but I have a problem with invalid file blah blah....so I can only tell you search " Mattheck drilling decay " in google and find the right document a pdf file and such.... I hope you find this helpful!! Phenom, as was intimated earlier, different methods yield different results and highlight additional aspects as you too are saying...I think of Kretzchmaria in this dimension....and people need to think again as Marcus said , about the method used and why....It worries me a bit that folk say " a couple of mins with tree officer and a tap here and there...." This is not a decent management process and will be criticised for its laxidasical expression....I very much hope the reality is somewhat different.....!

They are empirical systems that should be used in association with one another, one after the other perhaps depending on the value of the tree or the dosh/wishes of the client....Are they not all with their merits and weak points...?

Mmm...As far as I can see , the test situation, whist not ideal, is as good a way as any to reflect situations as they are in the real world.... Before you all start whinging that the crustaceous specimens are " not like the books "...get over it." I too didnt get them all right...I could explain this away to myself, and infact I have....but in truth the specimens looked so much like they would in the real world( whatever that means ) that to get a ganoderma wrong was unforgivable....just stop beating yourself up Tim. I really cant see how to avoid the test scenario...if you accept the need for a certain knowledge, it shows you the way in terms of how to seek out the facts...an open book system. Pass or fail, I enjoyed the 3 day seminar/workshop. I too reiterate that you will gain alot from attending without taking the paper, hence my comment that it is a decent training opportunity....Ben, I understand your comment and concur with your intended meaning!! Happy new year people±

Seeings as its you sir.....I can see (perhaps ) your confusion on account of my last sentence.... i refer you to the first line in my last post....id is from actual fruit bodies.....reference may be used ( ie books ) from which a determination may be made as to the true identity. T.

The process involves naming the fungi from actual fruit bodies.....the rest is open book....there is absolutely no reason to fall down here whatsoever mate....unless you cant read or write...in which case I would say you should not be inspecting trees professionally......! ( As a matter of interest...id is from books also....)

To answer the question mate.... Grinding is best....it will produce regrowth from the roots/stump....I am not gonna be the one to suggest poisoning it...although there are alternatives to roundup/glyphosate that are systemic. My advice would be grind it,especially if you are gonna replant with a more suitable ornamental of some sort....?

Leicestershire County Council are seeking to employ a tree inspector also...atm Could be they havent a clue mate...typical....sorry to be so cynical!!

If the tree in pic 3 is the actual tree in question... it looks a bit close to the building..... Planting like this gives trees a bad name....not all trees, by any means, will cause problems next to buildings but those that do tend to set a precedent. In the case of Euclypts, the roots are quite capable of damage in a way most other species are normally not...basically most roots take the line of least resistance. Euclypts are a thug....wrong tree wrong place imo. They can be successfully dwarfed if kept pruned hard and regular but you need to know they will grow like mad post cutting....and frankly, they should be " bonzaied" as a heavy standard if not sooner probably.....hope this helps.

Use your noodle man....change it...this is the best advice on this thread so far....!! it s not you I am worried about bit the muppets inside their nice warm trucks with music on , phone against ear and a coffee nestling in the lap...blissfully unaware of anyone elses reality.... Dont be the cause of a serious incident.