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Just to be obtuse and illustrate that the exception proves the rule ! Van Gogh's life, in many ways, epitomised the struggle that talent often has in a world of social prejudice ! Perhaps the absence of the figures depicts the lack of use this rotation/crop "enjoys" ? You cant beat a Van Gogh up close and personal!

Here , roadside on birch.... Too bad. Too far gone but they make good eating!

The art may be pretty special but unfortunately, most was paid for by the church and wealthy landed gentry, at least, this is where you should look for its historical premis and promotion....No surprise then that those whom paid the piper felt they could also dictate the tune that perhaps best served their needs...! I think this best explains the "idiosyncrasies" and anomalies. That dosen't mean to say that there isnt a great deal to be learnt from the images of the era. Not a great fan myself. I say post away with the modern and pop art..if it's relevant. Sorry Tony. Just me twopenth!

At the risk of crashing your thread Tony, it has the makings of some very entertaining reading and instruction, I wanted to put this up. You have touched on this in previous posts I know. It is the balance of this equation, an understanding and feel for the point of reference to the tree's real situation in the "equilibrium" of lifecycles that we should all strive to get a better handle on. Learning to do the right thing! Perhaps it will keep the wolves from the door whilst you gather the images and thoughts you have in mind for further posts here. It has the makings of a great thread:thumbup1: Good work ! rayner-fungi.pdf

Im surprised at you mate! Its all coming out now.

I would not have thought it unidentifiable....what you mean is, you have not identified it. If you are basing the app on presence of unidentified fungus, you gotta hope you get one of the many rather useless T.O's to give it the go ahead...Id never sanction works on flimsy reasoning...not on a tpo'd tree! Try putting some photos up, take a sample and post it to Kew...there's any number of things you could do..The fact you ask makes me think you domt know what you are doing!! Just me twopenth matey mate eh!

Oh come on mate! You make a living from your work with trees and you don't feel able to spend s few quid to learn more about what you are actually doing.... Your loss mate. Tim

Good spot.... Has a distinct lack of definition in the pics.

It seems not all experiments are quite so well conceived. So far, recreating the effects of compaction is not as straightforward as it might seem! Terravent:airspade.pdf terravant soil amelieration.pdf The impact of soil compaction on soil aeration and.pdf

Id forgotten about this thread..interesting. Well spotted Mr Humphries. I ve not seen rigi fruiting other than floor level I think!

So the gas escapes slowly enough once injected into the soil, allowing the soil/clod to settle relatively gently..? This may be what Hama was saying but unfortunately ( and not like him ) he does n't go on to explain his theory as to those situations in which it is most effective (more effective than others? ) Tim

Thats so coool! Systemic Induced Resistance activated across a network of plants at risk?

Thanks Lee...Terra Tree is a terravent I assume? You have experience with this tool and clearly feel there are benefits to be had from the technique. Thanks for posting. I will be visiting KEW soon . Doubt I will get the opportunity to pin specific enquiries on Tony Kirkham but at the risk of repeating myself...he did desist from terravent works for some reason or other. Wise words also about the use of fertiliszers... I was not aware that "elutriation" was a widely used technique. It sounds messy! It's bound to result in more physical damage- it introduces matter (H2O) to this process as far as I can understand. Not an immediately obvious control.... Thanks for posting that up Mr .S This is a paper discussing the topic of compaction. I have not read it myself yet. Hope it proves informative! The impact of soil compaction on soil aeration and.pdf

It's excellent. It also appears on most all reading lists relating to further studies. Highly recommend it!

Im not particularly proud to admit I have done some pretty dumb arse crap whilst up trees in my time but yeah....I agree. The height and free climb technique gives a sense of exposure that is very impressive.

David...I have some queries that Id like to put up that are the result of reading your posts and thread. I will do this when I have had the opportunity to gather my wits if thats ok! Full marks to you, if that isn't too uncomfortably patronising.....It has been already remarked, good to see this work. That you fly by the seat of your pants in that it is tentatively exploratory and in full view of the public, and that the tree is of sentimental value only makes this more so. Good to know that you still feel this way about how much you know however...Our attitudes are very much part of our willingness to engage and learn new stuff. And remember; science is about being right, but also about seeking to satisfy an enquiry, and this will often lead to the debunking of longheld beliefs maybe. Keep challenging youself in this way. It makes it more interesting. You are a prolific contributor to this site and I am certain this it is appreciated by many more folk than acknowledge it for whatever reason. I hope that people will feel able to ask the stupid questions, they are not often as stupid as they think. Lastly though David, if you feel the cap fits...wear it ! Thanks Xerses. I look forward to contributions to this thread. Really though. I wish those in the know will feel able and willing to make comments as they see fit, your support is appreciated!

It would clearly depend on soil type to some extent, on the age class and species of the tree I would have thought, as the root generation processes have subtle differences at the various stages of development; an understanding of the effects on the mycorhizal communities would be important too. This I say because, very often, those trees that would seem to warrant a program of decompaction are regularly already in more advanced stages of the life cycle. This would seem to suggest that mycorrhzi in the soil horizon, whilst present, are unable to function optimally. I suspect that blasting them to shreds ( very technical terminology!) does little to ameliorate the soils condition for the good. ( Young trees are not likely to have procured this same association as a result of the relatively brief timings involved.) I am unclear in my own mind however, are mycorhizal fungi present in soils without the trees? If so, on what do they feed? I am fairly certain that during the successional colonisation of the UK by trees after the last glacial period came to an end, @ 12,000 years ago, the success of those trees with the associations we know about today, were less successful in their various habitats as a result of the handicap wrought of their absence, being forced as they were to colonise small, niche pockets, until the mycorhizi caught up with them on the march northwards. And what of the incidence of causing embolloisms by the forced introduction of air into the vascular system? Does this actually occur? It is not outside the possibilities of science- logically there would seem to be no reason that this should not occur. And of the Terravent. It would seem obvious that the introduction to the rootzone of a metal prod is inevitably going to have a negative effect everytime damage is caused to the roots from physical contact. The introduction of mycorizal innoculation would seem to be a good idea and yet, much is said to contradict an obvious benefit from such innoculations- and they are costly. Fools gold? Fertilisation may be a further benefit; more is known about the effects and efficacy of fertilization, as well as dosage. This an area of technical expertise however. Finally, does the Terravent type decompaction only serve to hoist the soil, en masse, ony to then slam it back down. ( repeatedly) I for one am not convinced of the benefit from such a mechanism. Quite the opposite infact. It was touched upon in an earlier discussion thread on this forum many moons ago, but the talk of the need for training in the use of airspades has been suggested. I am intuitively both for and against this for various reasons. Practically, it is expensive whilst those involved are persuaded to generate income from what little is really known and understood about either of the processes. Little has been offered in discussion to dispel the myths and misconceptions. I am in the process so to speak of acquiring some research into decompaction. I am not certain of the nature of said articles but certainly would hope to post them here when (if) they materialise. In the meantime...all contributions to this thread are to be encouraged and they are welcome if it helps clarify those issues I have highlighted. Im sure there may be others. Likewise. Post away. Ignorance, despite what we may have persuaded of in the past, is just that ; ignorance!

I am not certain that there has been that much "scientific" research into the effects of the airspade .

Carlos....Im not sure whether you can. Perhaps the simplest way to ascertain condition is to ask about the method of production. I mean, of the nurseryman concerned. A visit to the nursery is highly recommended. Only by tracking the production process can you make an educated guess as to the root morphology. It is possible to reduce the plant to bare root but this is only perhaps ever going to tell you whats with the one plant...( ie-anecdotal) A plant that has been set, even at its most early stage of production, in a way that leads to poor root structure ( lets say no more than 2'' across and left to rootbound status) will be covered by subsequent "potting -on"! As a full grown tree in an amenity situation, you could justifiably harbour concerns as to the effective reliability of the rooting mass from a stability point of view. " Only by tracking the production process can you make an educated guess as to the root morphology." Actually, by ensuring that a standard of production is adhered to, the rest takes care of itself. Educated guessing is no longer needed. You do though have to trust your supplier to some degree! HTH

Here's a tip for removing thorns from your flesh... Diebetics will often use a special pin/needle to prick the finger prior to taking a blood test. These are available from chemists and such. They are ideal for removing the little blighters from your body. They can be put with a cap on it and then placed into your pocket, or wherever!

Perhaps there is a fundamental issue with the planting out of nursery stock...and of course, the soil type. If plants are more used, in their short lives at the nursery, to nice easy going; it may be the sudden introduction to more impenetrable mediums that provokes this phenomenom? As Hama points out, we do not see this ( although of course we do sometimes....sigh) in natural succession woodland root architecture. Of course..this does nothing to detract from an obvious truth contained in your post Paul. edit...Not sure that girdlers can be sorted at the planting pit...Its often too late but this does depend on the exact nature of the root system's development. I would recommend any buyer to seriously scrutinise the roots of trees from nurseries prior to purchasing them

Not strictly thorns but I would venture to suggest ( Ill get shot down now for my ignorance and optimism no doubt)...well. Look at it this way. Thorns are adaptations to survival ( grazing? ).....Self coppicing is a trait shared by many tree species the world over...but not all. For reference here I'd tell you to look at O.Rackhams "Woodlands" ( ch 3,4 & 5) Here you will find some kind of explanation for the retention of these traits...and whilst they are largely outdated from the survival logic that is applied to their development and success perhaps; they persist. This may not be quite so much the case with thorns and you will understand this as you read the chapters I mentioned. I recommend anyone to this book. Thank fook for thorns I say...The relative biodiversity of our landscape owes much to the protection garnered from thorns....

You definitely do Tony.....it says here! (wikipedia)"Smoking is often postulated as an example of cognitive dissonance because it is widely accepted that cigarettes can cause lung cancer, yet virtually everyone wants to live a long and healthy life. In terms of the theory, the desire to live a long life is dissonant with the activity of doing something that will most likely shorten one's life. The tension produced by these contradictory ideas can be reduced by quitting smoking, denying the evidence of lung cancer, or justifying one's smoking.[5] For example, smokers could rationalize their behavior by concluding that only a few smokers become ill, that it only happens to very heavy smokers, or that if smoking does not kill them, something else will.[6] While chemical addiction may operate in addition to cognitive dissonance for existing smokers, new smokers may exhibit a simpler case of the latter....." unquote. Root growth is achieved at the root tip only. I guess you should draw your own conclusions....! Interesting perhaps to think wood that is laid down in the roots as incremental `'thickening" (poor terminology I know cos I dont mean secondary but there..) is the same cell division. Apparently enough energy here though to lift a tree, progressively, out of the ground. Were it only about taking a line of least resistance, you'd expect the roots to girdle and the tree to put new growth thickening somewhere less "opposed"? Im sure there is a simple explanation relating to the actual chemistry and anatomical differences at the areas of production....?

Mmmm...Good point Mr S ( I cant call you Tony now can I? Id know what I meant, but Tony would be none the wiser...Oh dear!) This has/is/was a topic of interest at Barchams recently . Im sure it continues to be . Not strictly the remit of the upcoming BS re:nursery production I understand. Or does that misrepresent the BS ? Planting pit spec, aftercare and establishment potentially wastes so much of the effort of production if it is mishandled or ignored.; not to mention money!

Fair enough...I had thought the staining under the bracket at or near the bole was exudate.. Interesting discussion...a kinda "interactive" fung guide!