Jon Heuch

Most research projects require data - collection, analysis and interpretation; I would focus on a topic in which you know you can get hold of a useful set of data, possibly adding to it by a defined and predictable methodology (i.e. don't bite off more than you can chew). I would steer clear of subsidence unless you have a data set up your sleeve - there are just too many variables the main missing one being the building; subsidence is not just about trees! Brian Crane's recent work on trenching beside trees answers a lot of questions; he might be willing to share his data set and you might be able to do some field work (SE England?) if he feels there is some missing aspect. How about canopy cover, TPOs and tree officers? Is there any correlation between the three? If you have more tree officers do you get more TPOs? Do more tree officers lead to better outcomes i.e. greater canopy cover? I think it's an area you should be able to get reasonable data not by being comprehensive but by picking a few representative councils and comparing the results. With many councils now giving access to TPOs on line it should be easy to interrogate what is protected and what is not. You could also look at the number of appeals per Council and look for trends - data from PINs should be available.

Not for much longer. As government favours flexible generalists to specialists who only feel comfortable dealing with their specialist subject, I am led to believe that the arb consultants are being shown the door (1st March?) and you will get a planning inspector (having gone through some sort of short-term training) for all future appeals. I recently had a hearing with a planning inspector and I was struck by his arboricultural insight......of course I was as his decision was in my client's favour! I just wonder whether they all will be! Jon

Who's been taking my name in vain.....PS? Well I think the TPO issue has been covered; if there is no TPO and you have served a s211 notice which has been followed by a TPO which has not been confirmed......and 6 months have passed.... the right answer is that you don't need to serve a new s211 notice. Read Section 211 of the Town and Country Planning Act! The way the law is written is that if offers you a defence. You have that defence if either you have notified the Council and they consented to the proposed tree works OR if 6 weeks have passed (but no more than 2 years). Based on the lack of confirmation, 6 weeks have passed and there is no valid TPO. You thus have a defence to undertake the works that the Council have been informed of.

The key issues: i) GPS or non-GPS i.e. do you need to plot the locations of trees....or not? And at what accuracy - are you producing plans from which others will scale, design and hopefully build? ii) How much money are you prepared to spend up front? iii) What technology do you have already or are you starting from scratch i.e. smart phone, tablet etc iv) one-off surveys or are you interested in re visiting/resurveys (i.e. you are updating from an existing database? v) How tech-smart are you or do you want to be? vi) Weight of the device? vii) Do you need two hands in the field? What quality of report do you want to produce? And what outputs? Safety/condition surveys with work schedules? BS5837? My impression is that use of technology in the field can lead to some very boring and possibly misleading reports .....lots of boxes ticked, lots of data collected....but some of the key issues missed. Trees being trees there is a lot of variation and querks that don't fit in; a blank free form field can help but if it's only available at the end of the process for each tree there's a lot that is missed....so paper and pen is quite hard to beat....but if it's quantity and low (apparent) cost you are after technology is essential. Also I find that the technology may hinder/restrict/disincentive the surveyor to do what they really need to do - get their hands dirty and inspect the trees. So low cost and low investment? A cheap tablet (windows/android) and cheap software? I came across arbEvolve at one meeting. I have yet to follow it up but cheap and simple was the message. Might be able to plug in a simple GPS....but at what accuracy? At the other end? AutoCAD 360 and an I Pad? AutoCAD LT annual sub is only a couple of hundred pounds a year, a new I Pad Pro 128 £638 (I've just bought two so that was the price yesterday)....but learning AutoCAD will take a while. May or may not be able to enhance the GPS of the I pad? You will of course need to build something in AutoCAD to collect the data and output it for your report. There are several solutions in between - PEAR, eye-Tree and others - when I have looked at the prices they seem quite expensive but the reports I have seen (from others) seem adequate. There are a few (small) discounts for AA members i believe (follow the links on their menu structure if this link doesn't get you there): Arboricultural Association - Membership Benefits - Management Solutions

Ah yes, almost as ridiculous as the headline "planting trees in cities is going to save 10,000 lives...." which I think was recently tweeted. The reality is that urban air pollution is a serious but complex problem and planting trees isn't going to solve it - go to any forum considering the issue and planting trees is not really a headline act; there may be locations where vegetation (typically at ground/head level, not 15 metres up) may significantly reduce some aspects of pollution (particulates) but solving the NOx problem requires banning diesil engines.....which is what Mexico, Paris and others are considering; I am led to be believe that Tokyo has done so already and of course Los Angeles is heading towards zero emission vehicles at some point. So, it's the "tree" community that has got itself in its own warp of thinking trees can only do good and that having more of them must be a good thing, assisted by a need to reduce air pollution. Difficult to face evidence that points the other way....

Depends on how much you are prepared to pay and how long to wait? ALL TPOs other than those recently served should be registered as land charges so a search of land charges (via the same Council but a different department) should give you the information; it's what solicitors do when someone purchases a property. It will cost you but it won't raise the interest of the Council to go and have a look at a tree. You might be unlucky to just get a yes or a no but you might get more as to which trees are protected. There are also companies that will do the search for you.....but they will charge you more than you need pay. search under land charges on the relevant council website and you should find out how to do it. As for whether you could rely on that information if you felled a tree recently included in a new TPO.......it would all depend on the circumstances, but if the Council wrote to you to say there were no TPOs and not in a CA.....

yes it the bizarre thing that has kept the 1999 tree regs alive; quite why they couldn't accommodate it in the 2012 regs I don't know. We might have been able to bin the 1999 regs completely. See Reg 26(1)(a) if you are lost!

Eucalyptus deglupta .....it tends to be a tropical species.....some of the photos I see, I wonder whether Photoshop has had an effect. And it has been planted as an exotic plantation tree but not in the UK.

it's not quite that simple; the fact that a scientist has published a revised latin name doesn't meant that science has accepted his/her revision. There is likely to be a period of time (maybe several years long) before the revision is accepted and there may be dissent and non-acceptance. There may be further scientific examination and further papers. I don't think practical arboriculture need worry about this too much. If I use Ustulina deusta most people will know which species I am referring to....apart from a few new students who may have grown up with a new name. Would anyone like to tell me what the correct botanical name for leyland cypress is? It's a classic example where practical arboriculture didn't really need to be distracted by botanical nerds, interesting though it might be to some. In a few occasions where there is real change i.e. a species is split into two different names or strains are recognised (Phytophthoras being a prime example) nomenclature may be more important but with regards to P. species and other microorganisms we are in the hands of scientists as we can't see the things, only symptoms!

The scenario you paint is a little vague. Your words imply that the planting has already taken place....and there have been some implications? Is negligence alleged? For a precedent to have been set the case would have had to be heard in the Court of Appeal and I am not aware of any such cases. Furthermore I am not aware of any cases where lower courts have considered such matters and delivered a judgment that might be of use to you. In terms of a view: planting potentially large trees en masse near large numbers of domestic houses on clay soils where the foundations have been designed without knowledge of large trees coming along is a recipe for disaster. The case studies of Peterborough and Milton Keynes are interesting as that is precisely what they did and are now paying the price. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that their insurance bill (from claims) is larger than their "tree" budget but I have few hard facts.

It does of course depend what you are trying to do; the paper you referred to states an 8% "maximum mean difference" (for diameter) between methods - if you are only interested in rough sizes and don't intend to estimate growth, compare treatments such variability may be of no concern. The trees I referred to had diameters (typically) of 10 cm one way and 12 cm at right angles to the first diameter. I diameter tape might have suggested the tree had a diameter of 11 cm. If you are trying to estimate growth over time or compare individual trees of this size this issue requires a bit of thought. If you are interested in cross sectional area rather than diameter an 8% variation could translate into a 16% variation in CSA.

It does of course depend on what you are measuring it for and whether an accurate measure is important - it can be simple, it can be quite complex. In detail, it can be important to use the right procedure for multi-stems, on slopes and other situations. Height of measurement is part of the procedure but by far from the only thing. if you are measuring thousands of trees and putting a price on volume it is important to get an unbiased number i.e. get it accurate. For the most part in arboriculture, even BS5837 it's not that important but it's worth while if it's not too much effort to get it right. As for measuring it to the nearest mm, I find that's a bit of a joke. Forestry on the whole deals with circular trees normally without too many branches so their protocols (which may use a "diameter" tape which actually measures girth and the UK tape rounds down) don't typically cover the more complex tree shapes found in arboriculture; arboriculture has not developed a full protocol but BS5837:2012 has Annex C which covers some of the more common problems encountered but doesn't cover eccentricity: I measured an avenue of oaks the other day - possibly about 5 years since establishment as heavy standards. I was amazed at how oval the stems were - something that a diameter tape would not pick up but calipers did. As for the height of measurement, for a regular tree with little taper it makes little difference; for one with large whorls of branches on a slope it can make quite an impressive difference.

If you have any doubt on whether information is "sensitive", treat it as sensitive; once engaged contractually you may be in the possession of sensitive information. As a professional you will have in your terms and conditions mechanisms to break the contract but breaking the contract doesn't give you any right to break that confidence. Medical doctors and solicitors may be given confidential information that they may feel is best shared - your teenage daughter is pregnant, a driver has narcolepsy and of course my client admits to committing a crime; the solicitor's and doctor's role is to assist their client. A solicitor would be of no use to a criminal seeking a defence if the solicitor thought it in the public interest to tell the judge, jury or press that his client had admitted to the offence......and if your client tells you that he wants to fell trees (legally) and you don't like it you can advise them and argue against the proposed works but your (professional) role is not one of a public advocate. If your client tells you that they intend to break the law, the situation changes....a little.....you're unlikely to be in a position to stop the law being broken if they are determined. You clearly need to cover your backside and make sure you play no role in breaking the law. As for preemptive felling, it's the right of any tree owner to fell their trees within the constraints of TPO/CA and felling licences. It's their property!

It's interesting to read the discussion that has followed and see the dilemmas arising from this situation. As an amateur I am sure many of us would look at this situation, let our emotions run wild and think we should act in the public interest and help protect the trees......engage with the TO to stop any felling! As a professional you will be governed by a code of ethics/practice depending to what body you are a member of; look at it! If you think it is just words and can be ignored you really aren't interested in being professional. If you have read it and digested it you may have to make some judgement calls....but the situation is pretty simple in the first instance. If you are not a professional member of any body but you think you can work "professionally" you probably haven't had the experience to understand the dilemmas arising from work and thus value the benefit of having some support and guidance on this type of situation. The ISA Certified Arborist's reads "Maintain and respect the confidentiality of sensitive information" . The ICF's reads "Don’t divulge information to others unless it is appropriate to do so"......but also reads "Use your skills and experience to serve the needs of wider society".....so there may be a little doubt. The simple answer is, if you have any doubt, contact your professional body and ask them for their advice, in writing. That's one of the main reasons - rarely used - as to why we have professional bodies. The TPO & planning system is inherently flawed in that it works on TO luck in that land owners can fell small numbers of trees without permission but with the presumption that woodland will remain as woodland i.e. you need a felling licence for larger numbers outside of gardens etc. So your role as a professional is to point out the restrictions on felling and if you are told that illegal activity is to take place you will need to distance yourself from it. If this legal restriction on felling is not good enough then it is a matter for politicians to change the law.

For those of you looking at this case - the decision is available from the Bailli website under Upper Tribunal (Lands Chamber) - bear in mind it was decided under the old system; whilst the case is dated 2016 it was lodged in 2010 so fell under the transition provision of the 2012 regulations. The situation might have been different under the 2012 regs.

I was going to make the same point myself; I hope one of the roles of a professional is to anticipate problems so that new designs/layouts can avoid them as far as possible. Removal of trees is one of the options available!

Ferry or tunnel? Depends where you are starting out from and how far you intend to go the first day on the continent. Tunnel takes 30 minutes, and you check in sometime before hand. Tunnel entrance is M20 near Folkestone. Ferry takes about an hour and may take longer to board and get off (depends where you are put on the ferry)....great if you want a meal, stretch the legs and even a short rest.......Dover is accessible via M/A 2 and M/A 20 but is a few miles further....and if Calais port is playing up you're stuck. Price will vary but I think ferry is cheaper than tunnel. If I had a long journey I would always use the tunnel.....but then I live only 30 minutes from the terminal.....and think how far you have to drive when you get back for timing. I'm sure after a long continental trip you may want to avoid the M25 at rush hour! As for what to see........well part of it depends on the time of year; South of France sounds wonderful until you realise in August the roads are packed and on local roads you will be moving at times as fast as a snail. Parts of France are dead in August as everyone has packed off and gone to......the South of France. On Saturdays roads can be equally horrendous - especially le grand depart at the beginning of August from Paris and the end of August back to Paris - so timing is all. Many places for outdoor pursuits - canoeing for example on many rivers - probably good to pick an area and explore than travel many miles .....you get to know the motorway system but not much else! Paris is worth going to but probably not when camping - see the centre and get out. Versailles and Fontainbleu maybe worth a visit. There are many chateau, vineries, eateries and the tourist offices are quite good at pointing the local places to see - caves in some places. As for kids in cars......air conditioning is helpful as is cruise control for the long autoroutes

I was recently checking with ecologists on the status and use of the new BS; the view expressed was that they favour the BCT guidance....after all most ecologists will examine roof spaces before trees and need to see the whole picture of what bats are present and not just survey trees so the new BS is left on the shelf.....if they've bothered to buy it in the first place.

I am unclear what you mean by "the local council has stipulated that a bat survey must be carried out". What is the protection status of the trees and why are the Council involved? If the tree is protected (TPO) the Council may give permission with conditions but the expectation would be that you would comply with the law regarding protected species and this would be unnecessary as a condition under a TPO. If the work is exempt under "dangerous" the Council is not in a position to enforce conditions as they are not granting permission. If the trees are not protected it is not for the Council to enforce this legislation. As for best practice, you should be in a position to check for potential bat roosts without the assistance of external parties........it's just too common a position to be in.

Gary You are dependent on the Council's records for saying whether there is a TPO and/or CA protection status. As things may change and new TPOs served and old ones revoked you should not rely on previous enquiries to the Council. Clearly if the Council is in the habit of non-communication on top of shambolic administration there are a number of potential flaws. In such circumstances and assuming you are not in too much of a hurry and want to play safe I would just submit an application assuming there is a tree preservation order and then it will be for the Council to tell you there is not. This might not be appropriate in every case (i.e. where there is not, but the Council may serve a TPO if they knew of the work) but they may get the message if you file a lot of applications......which are very easy to generate on the planning portal. If the Council don't acknowledge a s211 notification and thus don't tell you that there is a TPO in place and you start work after 6 weeks on the basis that 6 weeks have passed then you may end up in a difficult situation. If this is a situation likely to re-occur you might need to send in a formal request for information on "any TPOs covering this area" and attach a plan outlining the area......alternatively approach the Land Charges department of the Council. They are likely to charge but you should get a definitive answer, other than for the most recently served TPOs. I am currently dealing with an old TPO where there is no evidence of confirmation but plenty of evidence of previous applications and refusal notices........the case gets more interesting when you consider the implications of this situation.

please share with us.....which Council?

Alec You pose some interesting questions which are really fundamental to how trees are managed in urban areas. There is firstly the technical/biological aspect of how trees grow and secondly there is the aspect of how this is communicated to the public, councillors and other professions. In terms of technical aspects you might want to consider the difference between life span (looking towards the maximum) and life expectancy (an awkward parameter reflecting the average life span of a population). In terms of managing expectations I am led to believe in the Netherlands it is possible to grow a cedar tree in your front possibly small garden and cut it down when it gets too big - a very practical approach and apparently not controversial; here, we seem to have an obsession with growing things too long and too big, afraid of change so we end up with numerous disputes which may lead to disatisfaction and possibly great expense. It's a great opportunity for education, planning, discussion etc etc if you have the time and inclination but my experience from tree felling in both forestry and arboriculture in landscape situations is that people don't like change; they get used to agricultural fields being ploughed and harvested, hedges being pruned but trees being felled seems a bit much.....although once done you can get joys of glee when vistas open up and dark corners of parks are removed.

Others have given you Chapter and Verse on this; of course the temptation is to show the Council that you know more about the law and administration than they do......but if you're asking us you clearly have some doubts yourself so best to do the minimum: What I hope you do have is a clear statement from the Council showing you the date that they had received your notification. If so just reply: "Thank you for your letter/email dated x/y/2016 acknowledging my s.211 notification of works to trees in a Conservation Area. I will use this for any defence I might need under s.211(3)(a) and s.211(3)(b)(ii)." It should at least get them to look at the legislation! You don't need to enter into any other correspondence.

A) In simple terms the Council is the Council....any part of it . But you have to accept that a large organisation is likely to take time in moving something around and people go on holiday. That's why the planning portal is so good....there is no room to argue on dates. Remember s211 is phrased as to identify a defence and so you have to prove your defence. You have to show you have served notice on the Local Planning Authority and 6 weeks have passed since you did so.....so leaving a general letter to the Council at the front desk is not quite good enough. It should be addressed to the Council as the Local Planning Authority and if the tree officer is not in the Planning Section it could be argued that you haven't given the LPA notice. B) As others have stated s211 (3)(a)."..sufficient particulars to identify the tree" are required....not necessarily a plan. C) In practice no and yes, I have been in the situation thinking the clock is ticking and the Council has not registered a notification so not been in touch. If you don't hear from them it is worthwhile checking the Council website (most seem to lodge them as planning applications but I expect a few don't) and remind them if it is not appearing.

and the answer, logical though it is, is quite frightening...... simply put, the combination of pest and host species is so multitudinous that if they were to include it they would be overwhelmed with numerous erroneous IDs and no capacity to check them all up. As the host list is so long they cannot produce a guide showing what it looks like for each host species......sounds like we will only know when we have it......