Climbing Kit, Loler and the Sole Trader, Whats the Point?

[R Mac]

Out of interest, has anyone ever known or heard of a climbers line snapping or a harness falling apart whilst in use??

 

To be honest Marc I would think it'll only fail in use, it's unlikely to be fine when you put it in your kit bag tonight and in bits tomorrow morning when you take it out (unless you have a problem with mice)

[JaySmith]

Maybe, maybe not, you'r going to be the one at risk after all, but aye as far as HSE is concerned I would have though it would be a conflict of interests but who knows

 

 

The hse issues guidance on this, in short in house examinations should be carried out by a competent person without 'fear or favour'. I inspect my own kit (I'm a full time employee and my boss is very good about kit and replacing it, never quibbles)

 

 

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[stihlmadasever]

I agree with some of what you say. Yes if the inspector can't/doesn't recognise the gear then no they shouldn't be inspecting it. As more and more gear comes into the market it is harder to keep up, however if you are charging for a service you need to keep up. When new gear is released I download the pdf from the manufacturers website to keep up to date. I also sign up for the updates from the manufacturers with regards to recalls etc.

 

The actual loler course is more in depth than than what is taught at 38/39 for sure. You have to be competent in many areas before passing, such as inspecting kit/ working out swl's etc. One of the main things I would say is important is to find a loler inspector that is an arb, I would only inspect arb equipment and wouldn't even get involved in other sectors/industries as I think you need to thoroughly understand the equipment you are looking at.

 

 

 

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I 2nd that train of thought,arb specialist inspector always

[Daythe trees]

I 3rd that.

[R Mac]

The actual loler course is more in depth than than what is taught at 38/39 for sure. You have to be competent in many areas before passing, such as inspecting kit/ working out swl's etc.

 

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Regardless the user is still considered competent for 6 months and I've seen the assessment schedule, there's some written stuff but the visual checks, which are the ones most relevant when a climber dumps off his approved kit aren't much if any different to what is taught on CS38/39.

 

Too much smoke and mirrors and from where I stand is looks like the emperor is at best wearing only his underwear.

[dan494]

Would lolering your own equipment not be a conflict of interests?

 

 

You can mot your own car, but if it's checked and you cheated you lose your job

 

 

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[JaySmith]

Regardless the user is still considered competent for 6 months and I've seen the assessment schedule, there's some written stuff but the visual checks, which are the ones most relevant when a climber dumps off his approved kit aren't much if any different to what is taught on CS38/39.

 

 

 

Too much smoke and mirrors and from where I stand is looks like the emperor is at best wearing only his underwear.

 

 

Yes the user is considered competent for 6 months, 6 months is considered the time to the next inspection. The inspector can recommend shortening the time to the next inspection. Rigging kit is slightly more involved when it comes to MBS/swl.

 

Don't get me wrong I'm not trying to make it sound like rocket science, far from it. At the end of the day as I said previously for less experienced climbers having somebody more experienced and/or knowledgeable inspect the kit has to be a good thing. I have seen kit that qualified climbers have climbed on and I wouldn't have walked my dog on it! But each to their own. For what it is worth the loler course is good and extremely worthwhile IMO, but others may disagree!

 

 

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[R Mac]

I 2nd that train of thought,arb specialist inspector always

 

Without a doubt, if it has to be done it may as well be done right rather than a box ticking exercise. In reality I'll probably get mine done, might as well add another to the list of people standing with their hand out having just had to pay £142 for waste carrier registration, upper tier for arb in N.I.

 

Sod it, I'm going for a beer, purely medicinal, I need to de-stress.

Enjoy the weekend folks, all good replies :thumbup1:

[TIMON]

Lots of good answers here and good to see things from a different perspective.

 

I understand that LOLER isn't specific to the arb industry, really my point was that we're considered competent for 6 months and then someone else is considered more competent and on what basis?

 

They've attended a 3 day course which as far as the actual checking goes is just the same as we've already been taught on CS38/39, it isn't as if they need to apply any specialist equipment to see the things that the rest of us can't, clearly for all their supposed competence some of them aren't even familiar with the equipment we use which is hardly reassuring.

 

I've read on here about LOLER inspectors failing equipment simply due to a lack of knowledge regarding said equipment, I'd suggest that if you come across a LOLER inspector who isn't familiar with a certified item of equipment in your posession and attempts to fail it on the basis that he's unfamiliar with it that you report him to HSE as he's potentially in breach of the very regulations he's trying to implement. See excerpt below from the HSE information Sheet

 

LOLER, How the regulations apply to arboriculture

 

LOLER requires lifting equipment to be thoroughly

examined. This means a detailed examination by a

competent person who has appropriate practical and

theoretical knowledge and experience to enable them

to detect defects or weaknesses in the equipment

being examined and assess their importance in relation

to the safety and continued use of the lifting equipment.

 

No doubt some will say that with the amount of new products coming onto the market that it's unreasonable to expect someone to be up to speed with it all, I'd say if you can't take the heat, if I'm to be expected to pay to have someone else check once every 6 months something that I'm required to check every time I use it they damn well better know more about it than I do.

 

Regarding impartiality, can you take the LOLER course and assuming you pass then LOLER your own equipment?

 

 

Yes you can LOLER your own kit but you need to be able to demonstrate that you can be impartial in making fail/pass decisions without "fear or favour". I do my own kit but it's good to get another independent inspection once in a while.

 

The 3 day LOLER course is different to the climbing courses. You learn a lot more on the LOLER course about the nature of kit degradation, EN numbers, CE marks, legal requirements. Etc..

I agree that a 3 day course doesn't make you an expert but it gives a good foundation on which to broaden your knowledge.

 

Believe me, the practical inspection exam at the end of the course is hard!

 

£90 may sound like a lot to you. But how many qualified arbs do you know who would turn up to do a small tree for less than that?

 

Another consideration is the responsibility that comes with LOLERing other people's kit. God forbid, say you missed a defect and someone got hurt because of it?

[R Mac]

Another consideration is the responsibility that comes with LOLERing other people's kit. God forbid, say you missed a defect and someone got hurt because of it?

 

That's all right though, it'd be the next day and his own responsibility.