What are the dangers of using SRT?

[Joe Newton]

Oh, and ascending at a pace straight into a wellingtonia branch is painful, ftr.

[broadsword]

If using BDB or RR it's possible for the device to disengage if you lean backwards into your chest harness (or neck tether I would guess-I don't use one) and put to much weight on the tending point. I know this wouldn't happen under normal use but the potential is there.

[tree-fancier123]

I heard tale of an accident involving a high anchor point put in with a big shot - apparently the anchor point broke and the climber fell - it was someone on a training course talking about this, not heard any other incidents like this, but binoculars don't seem silly if going for a high branch.

And bounce test with two people - although it could break a perfectly good anchor point?

Personally I like the idea of a base tie over the top of the whole tree - if some of the twiggy bits break there's plenty more left.

[Marc]

I heard tale of an accident involving a high anchor point put in with a big shot - apparently the anchor point broke and the climber fell - it was someone on a training course talking about this, not heard any other incidents like this, but binoculars don't seem silly if going for a high branch.

And bounce test with two people - although it could break a perfectly good anchor point?

Personally I like the idea of a base tie over the top of the whole tree - if some of the twiggy bits break there's plenty more left.

 

I am not convinced with the two person bounce test, and feel it's a bad idea to preload your line before an ascent.

The worst I ever had was throwing into forest grown Corsican Pines, probably a 70ft anchor (120ft throw when down the pub, tree at least 160ft) it looked to me to be about 6inches out on a stout lateral got another mate to bounce on it with me all seemed okay, a quick pump to all ist 40ft and as I looked up it was not 6" out on the stout live branch but 1ft out on a dead stub with the live branch directly above giving the optical illusion it was over that, I was on jammers at the time to no chance for a quick bail out!

 

When remote installing you have to be thorough take no chances, if there is any doubt to lower, we all want that ultra high anchor to start with but for the small amount of effort to advance once in the tree go for the sure one not the it'll hold no balls no glory anchor.

 

Also like you say spread over multiple points spreading the loads can be good, but beware of thin limbs and watch you angles, say if one part fails and it's 6ft to the next secure point that can be a 12ft fall.

[Marc]

I was speaking to someone today and SRT in trees came up - He ket saying about people not knowing the dangers of it but didnt really say what the dangers exactly are.... apart from taking a fall on a static line

All our lines are static, (semi-static) dynamic is not used in our industry

 

 

i've been thinking and i have a few - but wondering if any people have their own thoughts.

 

SO - my thoughts.

 

-Increased load on the anchor point when using a base tie

(though the to what extent is the load reduced by using multiple anchor points, anchor point diameter?? and that having the rope run over multiple anchors some one mitigates the risk if one fails.

Most of the time loads are forced down into a more favourable loading so the effect is negligible, it's still a point to consider particularly on lateral growth, I know of within the last 3 years 4 climber snap anchors with DdRT as they are imparting to much leverage on unsuitable anchors. Leverage and forces applied need to be considered regardless of what system you use.

 

- Extra tension in the rope - making it more more susectible to be being severed if cut and / or failing if damaged

A fair point, although cutting your rope in any set-up is a bad idea which is going to hurt.

 

- Base tie can leave a rope running down the side of tree - potential for large limbs or pieces bouncing and damaging the rope.

(I should mention of a risk of the groundy cutting the rope or the climber cutting the standing part of the rope - but then this says alot about the quality of the groundsman being used and the lack of situational awareness of the climber rather than a fault with the system - also if cutting a second attachement point / strop should be in place.

When undertaking any tree work you need to consider the task at hand and dynamically risk asses, if I am just lifting with low risk of large limbs hitting the stem I will leave a ground anchor in, if I am Rigging or dismantling and the risk of damage to my base anchor is there I will remove it and top tie, this goes for anything we do in the industry.

Also I do not know of anyone personally who climbs with 2 life lines, only a work positioning strop, which can count as an additional safety line in limited circumstance like working on spars, so always have the mindset that you only have one life line. Unless you have 2 separate systems of course.

 

- If using a fully static rope then increased risk of spinal injury if slack is the system and a fall occurs.

(my argument against is - best climbing practices, and that many ropes used in SRT in trees are also used for DdRT)

Our ropes are static, yes there are ropes that are fully static I used them myself for many years and now consider them a bad idea, a small amount of give is a good thing not so much for protection but to soften the impact to your joints during ascent. None of our lines are suitable to absorb falls.

 

-Climbing to close to you top anchor and forgetting to undo the HAAS and getting the whole thing jammed up and dangling about like a lemon for 10 minutes trying to sort it out

Similar accidents happen with DdRT climbers during changeovers have forget to clip in and fallen or nearly fallen, as with any climbing operation you have to be always vigilante and is not unique to SRT

 

The only other danger i can think of is that its made it less likely i will quit climbing anytime soon and do something sensible.

 

 

and thats all I have given my limited knowledge and experience in SRT

anyone got anything thay would like to add?

 

 

The problem with SRT is that we are still in the early days, major players like Petzl, DMM and ART with the exception of Rock Exotica are not yet fully behind it so it's left up to us to play around. Myself when I started I just used it for access using a fully static line and toothed ascendors, I now think this is a really bad idea but I did it for 7 years and other than the odd little thing that happens to us all. I am still here fit and uninjured apart from that time a tree barber chaired on me whilst on spikes snapping my lanyard and severely crushing me, thankfully other than bruising I was not seriously hurt (well apart from my pride and confidence) my life line choked around the stem held preventing a fall you could argue working SRT off the stem saved me... All hail SRT.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Marc

[tree-fancier123]

 

but beware of thin limbs and watch you , say if one part fails and it's 6ft to the next secure point that can be a 12ft fall.

 

yes - I realize simply firing the bigshot over the top (or out through the top) of a congested crown, pulling the line up then just snapping out the twigs with a quick bounce and ascending will never be 'best practice' - 12 feet fall wouldn't do climber or gear much good.

[tree-fancier123]

 

 

apart from that time a tree barber chaired on me whilst on spikes snapping my lanyard and severely crushing me, thankfully other than bruising I was not seriously hurt (well apart from my pride and confidence) my life line choked around the stem held preventing a fall you could argue working SRT off the stem saved me... All hail SRT.

 

sounds like you only just made it there!

a barber chair on spikes doesn't bear thinking about - was it a leaner? could you have used a bore cut? what are things to look out for that may not be obvious?

How would you do the same job next time around? - don't say sub it out

[Marc]

sounds like you only just made it there!

a barber chair on spikes doesn't bear thinking about - was it a leaner? could you have used a bore cut? what are things to look out for that may not be obvious?

How would you do the same job next time around? - don't say sub it out

 

Yeah it was pretty horrific and is probably a thread in itself. I became over confident and complacent, knocked plenty of big tops out in the past it should of been no different, only my face cut was poor the pull rope tension was wrong and I gave the nod at the wrong time for the guy on the ground to pull. It was an upright stem I was knocking out with a 660 pretty big top and when those fibres started to open,,, well we all know what should happen and I walked away with some severe bruising.

 

I was complacent and that was that, is SRT dangerous no but being stupid and complacent is.

[BenR]

is SRT dangerous no but being stupid and complacent is.

 

Summed it up for me mate. All of mine cock ups have been down to complacency/over confidence/distraction. It only takes a second for the everyday routine to suddenly be a castostrophy..

[Mike Hill]

Because its the first major advancement in our rope techniques in ages,I think that some inexperianced climbers buy too much gear without the basic understanding of the job.

 

This can mean they used advanced techniques which over complecate transitioning from ascent to work rig.

 

The more stuff you have,the more stuff you have to go wrong with.