Petition to get Nigel Farage onto the EU Referendum Debate

[matelot]

It is also worth bearing in mind that we have the consequences of centuries of colonialism coming back to haunt us. We are largely responsible for the situation in the Middle East,

 

Really? So the schism between Shia and Sunni Muslims has nothing to do with it?

 

Have you ever been to the Middle East?

[Vespasian]

You have posted some crap…………………….but this beats all

 

LOL see Stefan Molineux its his idea....

[difflock]

Wow! Someone else that thinks insulting people is a way to win an argument!

 

Perhaps you could use your superior intelligence to tell us how accepting millions of EU migrants into the UK improves our quality of life? It should be easy for someone as intelligent as you! The disadvantages of mass migration are fairly obvious: ie

 

1. Lower wages,

2. Pressure on public services such as schools and the NHS,

3. Building on greenbelt to house them,

4. They cost the taxpayer more than they pay in tax.

 

I’ll be honest, I don’t think there are any sound reasons as to why millions of migrants improves our quality of life….

 

matelot, mate, and all kudos to the MICE btw=Member of the Institute of Civil Engineers?, a generally sound thinking bunch, this opinion coming from a final year failed Civil Engineering Student.

One requires to disconnect the 2 events, and definately NOT assume/presume one is directly attritutable to the other.

i.e Immigreants = the source of all the UK's problems

Bit like "the Pill" and Overian Cancer

ME

I look at what I know to be true, from personal experience of over 50 years observations, of some dysfunctional, some hypocondracial, some paranoid, some a trifle dylusional, some with inflated senses of their own abilities, sometimes even seen when looking in the mirror, but all work mates, Church mates, Pub mates, of varying levels of intelligence, who all sincerely avere their friends-and-relations are all, absolutly 110% halo wearing perfect individuals:001_huh:

And any problems in Society HAS to be Their* fault.

Their* being "the others"

=somebody else.

i.e.

The Taigs

The Prods

etc

etc

marcus

Edited May 4, 2016 by difflock

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

This is the ultimate bang your head against a brick wall thread.

[matelot]

State lines in the Middle East are a western creation. The insertion of Israel was and still is a complete disaster and rightly a huge source of malcontent towards the West by Muslims. The deposing of Saddam Hussein and other Middle Eastern despots is directly responsible for the rise of Daesh. These are all contributing factors to the present situation and we have to take some responsibility for it.

 

The West has managed to cause problems in the Middle East. However if they want to redraw the state lines on a map they could do so...

 

Israel is contentious.. However is it any worse than Turkey invading Cyprus and keeping it? Do Christians feel the need to kill because of Cyprus?

 

We shouldn't have removed Saddam, however they were given a chance of democracy and thrown it away.

 

imho, the Middle East would be a disaster whatever we do.

[matelot]

matelot, mate, and all kudos to the MICE btw=Member of the Institute of Civil Engineers?,

 

Thanks, in all honesty it was the most stressful thing I've ever done. My employer was absolutely cr4p at giving me support to get in.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

I really have to disagree with your opinion. Farage is very dangerous. The ideas he espouses are clearly racist.

 

I don't believe you have the slightest grasp of politics at all.

 

You talk about saving the NHS. The NHS is a socialist idea. It was brought in by a left-winger called Nye Bevan. The right wing opposes this kind of thing because they oppose socialism of any kind. This is why we have seen creeping privatisation and a doctors strike under a right wing government.

 

Farage is even more right wing than the tories are. All the MPs that have joined UKIP from the tory party are all the most right wing and the most opposed to socialist ideas. To think they would protect the NHS is nuts.

 

He talks about saving the NHS because he knows it appeals to the poor and less educated who are the people who far right political parties always target because they lack the ability and education to see through their far mongering and racist nonsense.

 

He only appears to run rings around people if you lack the ability to understand that he is actually talking nonsense and appealing to less able people.

 

I think you've lost the plot here fella and have potentially become blinded by your own core political allegiances to the real "danger" to the long term sustainability of the NHS which is really from the fundamental "Left" who unashamedly capitalise (ha, ha!) on the national phobia of anything that proposes change - or to put it another way, evolution, of the NHS.

 

Before you spit out your coffee, please look to the perilous state of the NHS in Wales under Labour management.

 

Firstly, I need to say that I support the NHS as much as the next man just to establish a baseline and avoid the claim that only socialists can possibly be in favour of the NHS.

 

You seem to be proposing a simple polarised argument which suggests Labour = sustainable and effective NHS / Conservative (or UKIP) = destruction of the NHS.

 

I would argue that exactly the opposite is true.

 

Assured destruction will be the result of hysterical, irrational and fundamental opposition to evolution. It defies logic with an ageing population, greater life expectancy, increased demand and advances in medical science - not to forget but intentionally avoiding population growth as a threat.

 

The solution is not to simply pump more money in - it doesn't work and is unsustainable.

 

I experienced an impressive and efficient example of NHS privatisation recently. Rather than costing (the tax payer) a bundle, it cost me a reasonable price, left me feeling well served and having achieved value for my money for the service I received.

 

I went to Specsavers, I had a timed appointment for an eye test which started at the designated time and took about 30 minutes, the admin girl did her work and preliminaries, then the optician did their bit. I chose from a dazzling array of frames and 5 days later got a call to go and collect the glasses. All in, done in less than an hour over 2 visits.

 

Quick, efficient, professional, cost effective (to me) and with enough margin for the shareholders of Specsavers to make a profit. What's not to like?

 

I can't really be bothered to describe how the glacial inertia of a colossal public sector organisation would manage to deliver a fraction of the satisfaction at an eye watering multiplication of the cost, but I hope you might see the point....

 

To suggest that some privatisation of appropriate services should be opposed on the basis of political allegiance is a folly that will lead to the demise of an institution that actually belongs to all, regardless of core politics.

[difflock]

Oh ere Mrs! dats proper fighting talk, that is!

Re wor beloved, but quite absurbly dysfunctional, NHS.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Oh ere Mrs! dats proper fighting talk, that is!

Re wor beloved, but quite absurbly dysfunctional, NHS.

 

:lol:

 

Never let common sense get in the way of political in-fighting!

 

And an absurdly multi-cultural juxtaposition of Caribbean street slang, Geordie twang and Etonian plum!

Edited May 4, 2016 by kevinjohnsonmbe
afterthought!

[flatyre]

few pages back in the thread there was a lot of talk about immigration, I've just been sent for "diversity training" at the public estate I do casual work for, anyone who's been on diversity training will know its relevance to this topic. Anyway having seen the fact and figures there are actually a very small percentage of "foreigners" in the country and make up a tiny percentage of those claiming benefits. Its easy to adopt the attitude that one section of our society is to blame for everything and without them life would be rosey. Truth is the country is in dire shape for many reasons, if it makes it easier for you to blame one single aspect then blame the government for poor management, over subsidising some industries, refusing to help other industries, giving too many benefits to those who don't deserve them, then not having the money to give decent benefits to those who do deserve them, failing to protect skilled wages, following all Brussels laws while other EU countries pick and choose what they follow, the list goes on. Our current government is spineless, no guts to make the tough decisions or fight the right fight, Farage may be a prick but he's a strong willed and determined prick who sticks to his principles. For better or worse sometimes a country needs a strong hand to slap it back into shape.