Tree removed without owners consent

[geoff]

Can I ask who is liable for the damaged caused and for paying the fine/ putting back the tree? Is it the land owner who asked the contractor to do the work or the contractor? I am asking because I have priced a job for a home owner to take out an over grown holly hedge that is on the boundary of his garden. He says he is not exactly sure who owns it he says he thinks he does but the lady who owns the field behind thinks she does. He wants the trees out and plans to plant a new hedge. But she doesn't. The hedge seems to be in his garden as there is a fence on the field side. I don't mind upsetting the owner of the field but I also don't want to be liable to have to pay for any thing If she takes it that way. All the work is to be done from the customers side.

Is there anything I can do to protect myself? Like get him to sign Something that says he owns the hedge.

If he hadn't of said anything in the first place I would have just gone ahead and done it because from my point of view they are in his garden

Sorry about the long post

Thanks will

 

Steer clear, wilfully removing it without establishing owners consent, more so knowingly, is moraly wrong, and legaly too, why would you want to be causing damage to what is potentialy someone else's property, for the money??

[Marko]

Steer clear, wilfully removing it without establishing owners consent, more so knowingly, is moraly wrong, and legaly too, why would you want to be causing damage to what is potentialy someone else's property, for the money??

 

A fence line is not necessarily an indicator of the boundary. Stock fences are put in where convenient to serve an obvious purpose - it does not change where the boundary is. You know it is in dispute; proceed at your peril.

[Will Heal]

Hmm that's what I thought, I will go back to the homeowner and tell him that if he wants all of the work done to agree it with the neighbour and find out where the boundary lies. Maybe revise the quote just to take the over hang onto his property for now.

[10 Bears]

Hello Will,

 

Marko and Geoff summed it all up really - particularly the comments about not relying on a boundary fence as determination of property boundary.

 

If you were to go ahead and (with knowledge) remove what turned out to be the field owners property, you will be the one potentially liable to prosecution should it get that far.

 

Previously you asked who is liable, and the general rule is, he who does the wrong ie the contractor, not the customer, would potentially be liable as the contractor is the working professional and they are seeking payment for a service. Therefore they should take all reasonable steps to ensure their work is in accordance with the law or other directives.

 

You may ask what happens if as the contractor you act in good faith, but are given misinformation from the client for example, 'it is my tree (honest) - fell it today' when in fact this is not the truth. Well, there is a covenant of 'Passing Off' that has been established in case law. In short, you will be absolved from wrongdoing if you can demonstrate that someone else gave you the misinformation and you acted in good faith to provide the service.

 

So, in short, I would also recommend avoiding felling the boundary tree when there is a known dispute. You can go ahead and do the work on the side of your client, assuming that the tree is sufficiently in their property to warrant the extent of the work you do, and that you do not aerially trespass in to the other persons property.

 

Best of luck with it!

[IVECOKID]

You need to dig up the deeds to the land or get maps from council has to exact boundary lines before you proceed further, I recently had a boundary line issue with the Council and there was 3 different maps and measurements , turned into a nightmare all for a foot !

 

 

Ste

[FatherJack]

To the OP re tree toppled without consent.

There's rights and wrongs, principles etc etc. But please, please, please remember the health of you and yours. Taking on a case to put right a wrong may or may not be successful, can cost a lot, and can be extremely stressful. So stand back and take a good hard look at the situation before jumping in. Will what you get in return be worth it? Only you can decide.

[Ruskins Trees]

Will

 

The laws are written by people with trees.

 

You are entitled to the same tree back and a maintenance backed guarantee to ensure it establishes.

 

BS8545:2014 recommends 5 years aftercare

 

It is all in Charles Mynors The Law of Trees, Forests and Hedges

 

[ame=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Trees-Forests-Hedges-Charles-Mynors/dp/1847039146]Law of Trees, Forests and Hedges: Amazon.co.uk: Dr. Charles Mynors: 9781847039149: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51HQblKRBXL.@@AMEPARAM@@51HQblKRBXL[/ame]

 

Ask for a quote to cover the replacement tree at the same size* and 5 years aftercare; that will focus their minds.

 

* This will not be possible but you will be quoted for the biggest tree of this species nursery grown in Europe. The haulage alone will be eye watering as they are usually bigger than a standard lorry.

[Vespasian]

You need to dig up the deeds to the land or get maps from council has to exact boundary lines before you proceed further, I recently had a boundary line issue with the Council and there was 3 different maps and measurements , turned into a nightmare all for a foot !

 

 

Ste

 

Not so fast, boundary lines can be poorly recorded.. drawn in error or some such..

I'd suggest if a boundary looks like a boundary, IE mostly in a garden then thats the boundary..

common sense comes into play...

[Will Heal]

Hello Will,

 

Marko and Geoff summed it all up really - particularly the comments about not relying on a boundary fence as determination of property boundary.

 

If you were to go ahead and (with knowledge) remove what turned out to be the field owners property, you will be the one potentially liable to prosecution should it get that far.

 

Previously you asked who is liable, and the general rule is, he who does the wrong ie the contractor, not the customer, would potentially be liable as the contractor is the working professional and they are seeking payment for a service. Therefore they should take all reasonable steps to ensure their work is in accordance with the law or other directives.

 

You may ask what happens if as the contractor you act in good faith, but are given misinformation from the client for example, 'it is my tree (honest) - fell it today' when in fact this is not the truth. Well, there is a covenant of 'Passing Off' that has been established in case law. In short, you will be absolved from wrongdoing if you can demonstrate that someone else gave you the misinformation and you acted in good faith to provide the service.

 

So, in short, I would also recommend avoiding felling the boundary tree when there is a known dispute. You can go ahead and do the work on the side of your client, assuming that the tree is sufficiently in their property to warrant the extent of the work you do, and that you do not aerially trespass in to the other persons property.

 

Best of luck with it!

 

 

Thank you for your reply 10bears, this thread has potentially saved me a lot of bother with this job.

And your in depth reply has helped me explain to the customer why I am holding off doing the work until the ownership of the trees is clear.

[Jon Heuch]

I'm looking for some advice regarding a tree of ours which has recently been trenched around and pushed over by contractors working for a developer/owner. The particular site does not yet have any form of planning application and they are just clearing the site ahead of outlined planning; because of this the LPA are unable to assist.

 

The tree in question is/was a mature hedge row Ash with a Helliwell value of approx. £34k. It is very evident that a mechanical digger has dug around the root plate and pushed the tree over (bucket marks all up the stems and soil displaced)

 

I'm wondering if anyone has dealt with anything similar and what they were able to do about it? (We are currently awaiting a response from the local Police force, but I'm sure that CPS won't be interested due to the value)

 

There are two routes this can proceed down; they are not mutually exclusive, although the police might suggest they are "This is a civil matter......." Just because you have the right for a civil claim does not prevent a criminal prosecution.

 

If you do manage to get police attention (and it really is luck) the value of the tree is only relevant as to whether it ends up in the Crown court or gets dealt with in the Magistrates. However, the police might give more attention to a larger value item. I think the threshold values between the two courts have changed. However, you will clearly need to identify who did the deed - probably the individual but you may need to start with the company or contractor. The CPS may take it up on the basis that they don't want to see other people doing this sort of thing. The outcome, if successful, will be a financial charge of which you may see nothing. They may end up with a community order or something similar so no cash at all is involved.

 

You can pursue a civil claim - wholly dependent on your evidence if the police don't collect any - and your risk. Again you will need the name of someone or company to pursue. You will be seeking damages to rectify the situation. All sorts of issues and potential disagreements over what you might successfully claim.......but if of low value you could pursue via a moneyclaim claim on line - a mere £35 or so initial cost. Costs would rise to enforce any court order.