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Archbishop of Canterbury doubts the presence of God!


the village idiot
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Christianity is on the wane in the West, and Islam is going down in the Middle East. Judaism has always been a sideshow anyway.... In short, Monotheism on a global level is dying and its in the terminal stages. What we're seeing in Syria and the middle east generally is a symptom of this, as the Moral Majority and the rise of fundamentalism in the USA a few decades ago was and is simply representing the death throes in the west.

 

Monotheistic apocalyptic, guilt centric faith is leaving a vacuum which is bing filled by enviro-climate delusions. Now CO2 is the sin and we are the sinners. Gotta replace original sin with something....

 

Problem with the twenty first century is everyone can access the experts in a flash, and the argument and debate is not limited to the universities. Not everyone can claim to be a Bible scholar, but we can all tap the ideas and knowledge of real Bible scholars any time we like.

 

The churches tried to repress the printed Bible, for fear that people would interoperate it in their own ways. Now the internet offers us not only interperatiations but a ruthless breakdown of the whole thing in minute detail - if you care to go that deeply into it.

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Christianity is on the wane in the West, and Islam is going down in the Middle East. Judaism has always been a sideshow anyway.... In short, Monotheism on a global level is dying and its in the terminal stages. What we're seeing in Syria and the middle east generally is a symptom of this, as the Moral Majority and the rise of fundamentalism in the USA a few decades ago was and is simply representing the death throes in the west.

 

Monotheistic apocalyptic, guilt centric faith is leaving a vacuum which is bing filled by enviro-climate delusions. Now CO2 is the sin and we are the sinners. Gotta replace original sin with something....

 

Problem with the twenty first century is everyone can access the experts in a flash, and the argument and debate is not limited to the universities. Not everyone can claim to be a Bible scholar, but we can all tap the ideas and knowledge of real Bible scholars any time we like.

 

The churches tried to repress the printed Bible, for fear that people would interoperate it in their own ways. Now the internet offers us not only interperatiations but a ruthless breakdown of the whole thing in minute detail - if you care to go that deeply into it.

 

 

Not sure I agree with pretty much any of that Hairy chest.

 

It is admittedly true that religious belief is on the wane in the developed and affluent West. (Scandinavia is almost entirely 'religion free' and amongst the happiest regions of the world. I don't know whether the two are connected, but I have my suspicions):sneaky2::001_smile:

Religious belief is still alive and well in almost all of the rest of the world, and with the comparatively high birth rates in these poorer countries and the world's track record on the distribution of wealth, there is not much chance of that changing very much.

 

Surely it is a good thing (rather than a problem) that we have access to the experts in a flash. It could well be argued that it is not having access to these experts that stops people from being able to educate themselves and make reasoned decisions on matters such as Faith. As a general rule countries that become more educated and affluent become less religious over time. The USA being the exception that proves the rule, but we all know that they are crazy:001_smile:

 

If by "enviro-climate delusions" you mean the concern over CO2 emissions and the resultant warming of our climate then your view is very worrying indeed.

Even the God fearing politicians, not renowned for their ability to accept the evidence of science, have now conceeded that we are in serious doo doo if we continue to prioritise human contentment and consumption over the health of our planet.

In my view an ambivalence to the warming of our planet and a refusal to accept the part we play in it is way more of an issue than whether or not there is a God. A rejection of the evidence on our attempt to destroy our own planet is far more consequential than a rejection of the evidence against the existence of God. Laying into one for ignoring the evidence whilst rejecting the other when the evidence is clear for both. That is delusional.

 

Maybe you were just trying to be provocative? If so, well done. Consider me provoked!

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A small child is shipwrecked and ends up all alone on a desert island. His parents perish and there is no bible or any other religious work available.

 

He knows nothing about religion. He spends all his life looking after his environment, taking care of the wildlife (living sustainably) ,treats all visitors well (assuming they don't introduce the G word). He is happy and he doesn't look for answers and just accepts things as they are.

 

What will happen to him when he dies?

 

What if he had been a monkey instead, or a pet parrot?

 

No knowledge and no faith - no problem?

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I wish I had the eloquence and erudition of some of the folks who have posted here, as I acutely feel my lack of.... but I'll blunder on regardless.

 

Like the heretics of old, I feel it is my duty to the truth to provoke, yes. Those who provoked and argued against the "conventional wisdom" of mass religious feelings in the past were vilified and victimised. I now repeat their sacrifices by pointing the accusing finger at the modern religion which I dub: "CO2=climate change=Bad And We Are To Blame"

 

I hope you are provoked just enough to bear to watch this 44minute video, and not too provoked to simply dismiss it with disgust. A lot to ask of anyone, I'll be the first to say I wouldn't bother to watch it myself, and I wouldn't blame you if you don't.

 

This guy was director of Greenpeace for fifteen years. Did more to "help save the planet" than all of us put together. He has embraced manmade CO2 emissions as a vital and necessary part of the continued survival of the Earth's biosystem. I **** you not.

 

I believe him. I have FAITH. You can put scientist up against scientist till the cows come home and generate nothing but controversy and anger. At the end of the day (when the cows come home) we are gonna believe what we want to, and find supporting evidence for it - its just the way we are wired. To state that "science is right" is just another belief, or faith, that science is right. Science is not always right, and the media and politicians distort the findings of the scientific community. We don't know if the scientists are right about manmade emissions contributing to climate change. Some say aye, some say nay. Lets check back in ten years and see how it panned out.

 

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I wish I had the eloquence and erudition of some of the folks who have posted here, as I acutely feel my lack of.... but I'll blunder on regardless.

 

Like the heretics of old, I feel it is my duty to the truth to provoke, yes. Those who provoked and argued against the "conventional wisdom" of mass religious feelings in the past were vilified and victimised. I now repeat their sacrifices by pointing the accusing finger at the modern religion which I dub: "CO2=climate change=Bad And We Are To Blame"

 

I hope you are provoked just enough to bear to watch this 44minute video, and not too provoked to simply dismiss it with disgust. A lot to ask of anyone, I'll be the first to say I wouldn't bother to watch it myself, and I wouldn't blame you if you don't.

 

This guy was director of Greenpeace for fifteen years. Did more to "help save the planet" than all of us put together. He has embraced manmade CO2 emissions as a vital and necessary part of the continued survival of the Earth's biosystem. I **** you not.

 

I believe him. I have FAITH. You can put scientist up against scientist till the cows come home and generate nothing but controversy and anger. At the end of the day (when the cows come home) we are gonna believe what we want to, and find supporting evidence for it - its just the way we are wired. To state that "science is right" is just another belief, or faith, that science is right. Science is not always right, and the media and politicians distort the findings of the scientific community. We don't know if the scientists are right about manmade emissions contributing to climate change. Some say aye, some say nay. Lets check back in ten years and see how it panned out.

 

 

Nowt wrong with your posts Hairy chest! It's getting your point across that matters and you do that very well:001_smile:

 

Take no notice of my poncey writing style. It's a relic from studying English Literature at school. I was always getting told off for making my science write ups too wordy!

 

I am very self conscious myself of coming across as a pretentious, condescending prat, but I too blunder on regardless! It is an important topic to debate, although as Mull pointed out early on, it is almost certainly doomed to fail.

 

I don't agree with everything you say in your post, but I'll have a watch of the video when I get back to the yurt and let you know what I think.

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forgot all about this thread, where were were we? ah yes......

 

Absolutely.

 

so your grandparents and great grandparents were responsible IRA bombings and assassinations during the troubles?

 

listen mate dont answer this because of course they were not responsible just like everyone else's grandparents and great grandparents were not responsible for the list of events you posted from WW1 to women not getting the vote. By the way, Nazism and Communism were atheist ideologies, it's hard to make a case for them being powered by a christian ethos.

 

My general point was that western civilisation (when taken over a much longer period of history than you focussed on) has benefitted from having a christian ethos rather than being stifled by the negative impact of islam.

 

I think Niall Ferguson makes my general point here -

 

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And you, my friend, are not the idiot you claim to be! Lives in a yurt. A man after my own heart - I lived in a treehouse for 8 years, solar 12v etc. Still use a bucket toilet but little bit more luxury now. We are the true philosophers of the western world.

 

I dont agree with everything I say either......as Whitman said: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes."

 

Good to know there are still a few tent people around, sleep well bro - hugs.

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forgot all about this thread, where were were we? ah yes......

 

 

 

so your grandparents and great grandparents were responsible IRA bombings and assassinations during the troubles?

 

listen mate dont answer this because of course they were not responsible just like everyone else's grandparents and great grandparents were not responsible for the list of events you posted from WW1 to women not getting the vote. By the way, Nazism and Communism were atheist ideologies, it's hard to make a case for them being powered by a christian ethos.

 

My general point was that western civilisation (when taken over a much longer period of history than you focussed on) has benefitted from having a christian ethos rather than being stifled by the negative impact of islam.

 

I think Niall Ferguson makes my general point here -

 

 

 

 

Yeah, to be honest at this point I dunno if this thread is really helping anyone. At least it got us talking about something deeper than logs for a change. These things are so complex and unfathomable that one would need the processing power of a god to figure it out.......we all just stumbling around in our own minds.

 

Part and parcel of the human condition I suppose! :001_rolleyes:

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Yeah, to be honest at this point I dunno if this thread is really helping anyone. At least it got us talking about something deeper than logs for a change. These things are so complex and unfathomable that one would need the processing power of a god to figure it out.......we all just stumbling around in our own minds.

 

Part and parcel of the human condition I suppose! :001_rolleyes:

 

 

Good post. :)

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A small child is shipwrecked and ends up all alone on a desert island. His parents perish and there is no bible or any other religious work available.

 

He knows nothing about religion. He spends all his life looking after his environment, taking care of the wildlife (living sustainably) ,treats all visitors well (assuming they don't introduce the G word). He is happy and he doesn't look for answers and just accepts things as they are.

 

What will happen to him when he dies?

 

What if he had been a monkey instead, or a pet parrot?

 

No knowledge and no faith - no problem?

 

I think the poor sod would burn in hell for eternity according to some religions for not recognising a God.

 

Is it too much to ask that people just be nice to each other rather than lying and telling them they have to do this that and the other or they will suffer an eternity of red hot pokers up the bum? Plus if they aren't nice in this one and only life then they do get a poker up the bum until they drop dead.

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