X-Torq vs 2-Mix?

[Haironyourchest]

Who makes the best stratified two stroke system? Decision to buy will be decided by whichever crowd makes the most reliable and efficient motor. I've searched high and low of info and found nothing this layman can comprehend. There are some unsupported statements around that Sthil's 2-Mix is really the X-Torq under licence, but I can'f find any proof of this.

 

If it is so, would it matter? Scrutinizing the youtube vids of the various systems it looks like they are different, but I could be mistaken.

 

I have been agonising over this for months, and will most probably agonise for some time more....I want to run all low-emissions gear, purely for my health and comfort, and can't afford to use aspen on a daily basis.

 

Just flummoxed that there is so little info out there. In Ireland there is really only the Big Two available, with a smattering of the smaller Makitas.

 

Also an add-on question: I gather that all these strato saws are set borderline lean form the factory. Is this true?? If so, will richening the carb for "longevity" defeat the effectiveness of the strato system?

 

Yes I realise these questions are a tall order for folks like us, who don't have fully equipped laboratories and million dollar emissions testing machines in our sheds.......but maybe someone has a link to some independent hard facts?

 

To those who suffered my "Black Hole" rant - please forgive me. It was a self indulgent, emotion-saturated version of the questions posted here.

 

Thanks a mill for any feedback.

[TORNADOS7]

I would hesitate a guess that richening the mixture to aid engine longevity would reduce the effectiveness of the catalyst as would upping the fuel-oil ratio which would cause the catalyst to clogg the only real way to test if the carb settings are ok would be to use the saw until it's proper warm then give it full blast with the throttle for maybe 15-20 seconds or so and then switch off immediately (do not allow to idle) once you've done this you'll need to remove the plug and assess the colour of the plug, it should be 'light tan brown' in colour and dry, if it's white/light grey then it's on the lean side and if it's dark brown-black and sooted or wet then it's on the rich side either of these conditions will necessitate a tweeking of the mixture screw one way or the other, hope this helps !...

 

Of course that's assuming you can actually tweek the mixture screw and it's not blanked off to stop people like us from interferring !...

Edited August 8, 2015 by TORNADOS7

[Eddy_t]

Who makes the best stratified two stroke system? Decision to buy will be decided by whichever crowd makes the most reliable and efficient motor. I've searched high and low of info and found nothing this layman can comprehend. There are some unsupported statements around that Sthil's 2-Mix is really the X-Torq under licence, but I can'f find any proof of this.

 

 

 

If it is so, would it matter? Scrutinizing the youtube vids of the various systems it looks like they are different, but I could be mistaken.

 

 

 

I have been agonising over this for months, and will most probably agonise for some time more....I want to run all low-emissions gear, purely for my health and comfort, and can't afford to use aspen on a daily basis.

 

 

 

Just flummoxed that there is so little info out there. In Ireland there is really only the Big Two available, with a smattering of the smaller Makitas.

 

 

 

Also an add-on question: I gather that all these strato saws are set borderline lean form the factory. Is this true?? If so, will richening the carb for "longevity" defeat the effectiveness of the strato system?

 

 

 

Yes I realise these questions are a tall order for folks like us, who don't have fully equipped laboratories and million dollar emissions testing machines in our sheds.......but maybe someone has a link to some independent hard facts?

 

 

 

To those who suffered my "Black Hole" rant - please forgive me. It was a self indulgent, emotion-saturated version of the questions posted here.

 

 

 

Thanks a mill for any feedback.

 

 

To summarise, yes, 2-mix is x-torq under licence, Husqvarna owns the patent after purchasing zenoah red max. Stihl now owns the patent for separating the air via the carburettor (same as the 372xp and 365), whilst husky owns everything else. The new cylinders are now made by a company chosen by Husqvarna and no longer by Mahle.

The Stihl chainsaws were shipped to dealers a little lean on the low rpm, but, tbh if dealers did a proper carb set-up before handing the saw over, there wouldn't have been the problems.

 

As for the unfounded statement, details about the patents can be found online.

[Joe Newton]

So you're planning to buy all new low emissions kit because you can't afford Aspen?

[Haironyourchest]

Hi TORNADOS7 thanks for your input. As far as I know the catalytic converter thing is not found on saws in the EU (open to correction), its not available here in Ire on Sthils and Husqs anyway, and I wouldn't want it if it were. Some of the Dolmars seem to have it though.

 

I hear what you're saying about checking the plug - good idea. But don't they say you shouldn't run WOT no-load for more than 3 seconds at a time? I don't think I would feel comfortable flogging my brand new saw like that!

 

Obviously I will remove any limiters if possible, and replace after tuning. I'd like to see a Parts Diagram for the 461 but can't find one - there is a french language site with a slew of Stihl parts diagrams but it doesn't include the 461!.

 

 

 

--

 

Eddie_T - thanks for reply. I think I stumbled upon those patents but I think they were beyond me. I'm going to have another look... So If Red Max invented the x-torque design, and sold to Husq who sold to Sthil...is there any difference at all in the way they things are built? Have still refined and improved on the Red Max design?

 

If Husqu chooses who makes the cylinders, are the Stihl and Husq cylinders from the same maker then??

[Haironyourchest]

So you're planning to buy all new low emissions kit because you can't afford Aspen?

 

He Joe, yes that's the plan. I already have an ex-hire 543 x-torq strimmer since feb, which has been fine so far, and a 131 4-mix pole saw which is also fine.

 

The aspen is great, and I realise its deductable etc, but with the kind of quantities a large cc saw would get though; I don't know...Again, strimming all day, guzzles fuel, and can't charge much for strimming compared to tree work.

 

I currently have a 254xp and a ms250, which are too close in power and weight to be worth having two saws (not counting the rescue and backup factor). Id be looking at a 75cc and a small and light pro saw for lighter work.

 

Of course I'm penny wise and pound foolish like everyone else. Dropping a grand and a half on saws but too tight to use aspen...yes i know...But my reasoning is that If I used aspen in my current line up for the next five years, Id probably be half way to spending the cost of a new strato saw...and still be wielding last century's model, that would by that time be even more dated.

 

Ive sunk €500+ in my 254xp in parts and labour these last few years. If the 250 starts playing up I will not bother paying for or trying to fix.

[Stubby]

 

Obviously I will remove any limiters if possible, and replace after tuning.

 

 

 

--

 

If they are A/T saws then you wont be doing any tuning as it does it itself .

 

I think Husqvarna sold to Stihl ( as they did with 1st generation A/T ) I think Husqvarna are on 2nd or 3rd generation now .

[Haironyourchest]

Hi Stubby, the saws Im looking at are not Autotune or M-tronic. Im sure the intillicarbs are brill and all, but the idea just doesn't sit right with me. Im fascinated by the mechanical strato principle though, and would like to take advantage of it.

 

I have formed the opinion after researching around this topic for several months, that the "World Chainsaw Community" just might be the most superstitious group of manly men on the planet, after sailors....

 

And I mean that in a kindly way - and readily admit my own tendency to prejudice...If I dont shake and roll the mix can just so, each and every time I fill the saw, well...something terrible...will happen...

Edited August 8, 2015 by Haironyourchest
spelling

[Eddie@aspen]

Hi all,

 

Don't forget Aspen can be ordered though dealers but delivered direct to you.

 

Saving you time and money.

 

The dealer should give discounts on direct orders of 54x 5 litres cans and you get free shipping.

 

You could get a group of you together and place one order to get a better price.

 

Any problems with getting dealers to do the above let me know.

 

07568 108953

 

or [email protected]

 

kind regards

 

Eddie

[Stubby]

Hi Stubby, the saws Im looking at are not Autotune or M-tronic. Im sure the intillicarbs are brill and all, but the idea just doesn't sit right with me. Im fascinated by the mechanical strato principle though, and would like to take advantage of it.

 

I have formed the opinion after researching around this topic for several months, that the "World Chainsaw Community" just might be the most superstitious group of manly men on the planet, after sailors....

 

And I mean that in a kindly way - and readily admit my own tendency to prejudice...If I dont shake and roll the mix can just so, each and every time I fill the saw, well...something terrible...will happen...

 

Understood . I shake the can every fill up too . Habit . I mix Aspen 4 with Red line 2t oil at 50:1 .