Farmers take milk off shelves at large supermarkets Re price of milk

[Haironyourchest]

I've often looked at hill land and wondered how much actuall food the land produces. The vegetation looks poor and the sheep are shivering in a corner. I can't see it producing that much by the time you exclude supplemental and winter feeding.

 

If you plant the land with trees you get more shelter and the deeper tree roots bring up nutrients from the deeper soils. I honestly think there would be an abundance of deer if hill land was planted out. Is venison not worth more than lamb?

 

 

You'd better believe it. We have too many deer round here...and the forests are nothing to write home about even...problem is venison is worth less than mutton in Ireland. People just aren't interested. I know someone who farms deer as a hobby, but it pays very little. They're ornery and dangerous, need massively tall fences, and are really only for export, which again reduces your bottom line, and to top that theres only a few guys with the permits and so on to buy and sell game, and they have the market cornered.

 

Wild deer would be too random. A lot of it's pretty tough....

 

But still forests would be better.......

[matelot]

Is providing food not an essential service in itself?

 

It obviously is. But every other business that deals with food has to pay business rates...

 

Ie abatoir, butcher, refrigerated haulage company etc.....

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Doesn't happen often, but I've had a full and complete polar reversal of my position on agricultural subsidies!

 

Provided there is one teeny amendment to the current system.......

 

As soon as the original purchase price of the agri business (including all land, buildings, machinery and other assets) have been received in subsidy, the entire business then transfers to state ownership and the incumbent draws a salary commensurate with experience and qualification.

 

Can't say fairer than that? Some of these subsidies must add up to many times the original value of the business over the years of drawing.

 

Everyones a winner!

[Richard 1234]

If the subsides are so good why are farms going out of business?

The system is flawed without doubt and I don't know how it would be fixed.

I do know my dad doesn't claim them anymore as they are not worth it for him and what his is doing now semi retired.

To get good rates you need thousands of acres meaning you would need a couple of million just to put a deposit down to get started.

Then have money for machines. The numbers don't add up unless you have land in those amounts that is already paid for.

I've been looking to get a small holding 10-20 acres and the numbers just don't add up. It does make me sad as I would like to live on a farm again but won't be able to.

I won't take the risk I suppose as is need to take a massive mortgage to do it and a small farm would not pay for itself let alone make any money to live on

[mendiplogs]

If the subsides are so good why are farms going out of business?

The system is flawed without doubt and I don't know how it would be fixed.

I do know my dad doesn't claim them anymore as they are not worth it for him and what his is doing now semi retired.

To get good rates you need thousands of acres meaning you would need a couple of million just to put a deposit down to get started.

Then have money for machines. The numbers don't add up unless you have land in those amounts that is already paid for.

I've been looking to get a small holding 10-20 acres and the numbers just don't add up. It does make me sad as I would like to live on a farm again but won't be able to.

I won't take the risk I suppose as is need to take a massive mortgage to do it and a small farm would not pay for itself let alone make any money to live on

 

Hi mate it only the largest land owners make money out of subsidies thanks John

[easy-lift guy]

Doesn't happen often, but I've had a full and complete polar reversal of my position on agricultural subsidies!

 

Provided there is one teeny amendment to the current system.......

 

As soon as the original purchase price of the agri business (including all land, buildings, machinery and other assets) have been received in subsidy, the entire business then transfers to state ownership and the incumbent draws a salary commensurate with experience and qualification.

 

Can't say fairer than that? Some of these subsidies must add up to many times the original value of the business over the years of drawing.

 

Everyones a winner!

 

Interesting concept. What happens when the number of state ownership farms become a majority share of the overall market?. Will pricing of say Milk be the exclusive domain of the state and not the free market supply and demand theory?. How will the state cope with imports from other countries, like EU countries dumping lower cost Milk on the market?

Who will determine experience and qualification?

I get the part of the owner drawing a salary from the state since by default that person is employed by the same entity.

Sorry if some if not most of my questions may have already been answered with your earlier links.

Thanks

easy-lift guy

[easy-lift guy]

If the subsides are so good why are farms going out of business?

The system is flawed without doubt and I don't know how it would be fixed.

I do know my dad doesn't claim them anymore as they are not worth it for him and what his is doing now semi retired.

To get good rates you need thousands of acres meaning you would need a couple of million just to put a deposit down to get started.

Then have money for machines. The numbers don't add up unless you have land in those amounts that is already paid for.

I've been looking to get a small holding 10-20 acres and the numbers just don't add up. It does make me sad as I would like to live on a farm again but won't be able to.

I won't take the risk I suppose as is need to take a massive mortgage to do it and a small farm would not pay for itself let alone make any money to live on

 

When one gets use to receiving something for nothing apathy, and ones desire to do more with less and work more efficiently quickly disappears.

At least that is what I have seen over and over here in the US:thumbdown:

Risk is often associated with success and failure, however I choose to make my own calculations and not rely on the government in the process.

Government acts on its own behalf and other than providing for a national defense and a form of exchange to purchase good and services virtually all other services could and should be provided by the private sector, IMHO

easy-lift guy

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

If the subsides are so good why are farms going out of business?

The system is flawed without doubt and I don't know how it would be fixed.

I do know my dad doesn't claim them anymore as they are not worth it for him and what his is doing now semi retired.

To get good rates you need thousands of acres meaning you would need a couple of million just to put a deposit down to get started.

Then have money for machines. The numbers don't add up unless you have land in those amounts that is already paid for.

I've been looking to get a small holding 10-20 acres and the numbers just don't add up. It does make me sad as I would like to live on a farm again but won't be able to.

I won't take the risk I suppose as is need to take a massive mortgage to do it and a small farm would not pay for itself let alone make any money to live on

 

 

I do feel for you mate. The system is deeply flawed and not at all suited to supporting the working farmer - in my view / limited understanding of the system. The outstanding question I can't understand though, is why grass roots farmers don't get a grip of their union - the NFU. I can't see how they are doing anything other than supporting the very rich / very big businesses and the quangos. Look at the top recipients of subsidy - the likes of county councils, LANTRA, National Trust, Duchy of Cornwall, Duchy college, RSPB etc. Then there are the investors buying the subsidy rights without any interest in farming. It's not helping grass roots farmers so why aren't they holding the NFU to account? It's unbelievably bloody wrong and it's the man/woman at the end of the food chain that's feeling the most pain.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Hi mate it only the largest land owners make money out of subsidies thanks John

 

 

Jon, it's possible in one of the DEFRA links above to search by trading name, family name, location for every registered farm and see exactly what subsidy is drawn. If you look closely, you'll see some "double entries" as well - I found some where the same person was listed by first initial, then again on first and second initial and then again in trading name. Quite interesting to look up all our local farms and see what they actually receive (no one is more secretive that a farmer) and one of the consequences of "transparency" is that the data has to be published. No more secrets!

[easy-lift guy]

Now it makes sense, Unions. That subject is a barrel of worms. And private investors are allowed to buy into this cluster frack!. The makers and takers are feeding into this scheme, Yikes!!

easy-lift guy