Do students learn any thing?

[Mick Stockbridge]

Hit him!

[Andy Clark]

so college is crap then andy lol

 

I think 'Crap' is a bit harsh Steve...... I mean, i'm not trying to put anyone off or owt.....

 

But the way in which some are run, and everything that goes on behind the scenes, definitely gets in the way of teaching students "the right way".

 

Take Mr Hancocks comments regarding apprenticeships.... yeah SPOT ON!!

 

Apprenticeships are great and are becoming more and more popular, as more colleges take on board and reflect the true needs of the industry that it feeds into..... and my advice to any up-and coming newby would be to follow that very path. Either through a recognised scheme, or with 2-3 years industry experience first (as a stick dragging dogsbody), THEN go to college.

 

But there is definitely no excuse (and i do speak from experience!) for colleges expecting students to be taught to climb using 9 year old kit, just because 'funds don't allow' for replacement!!

 

Honestly, i could tell you things that'd make your toes curl.

[Andy Clark]

By implication (sort of), the H&SWA.

 

QUOTE]

 

Very "sort of"

 

 

Well no, not really THAT very.....

 

I mean, long and short of it comes down to liability.

 

If you employ person/persons without the necessary and relevant quals for the job in hand and something goes wrong, you're liable..... and open for prosecution under the H&SWA.

 

Simple!

 

 

[Stephen Blair]

i find the word crap a nice fun term, now if you want a harsh word then i better not say it on here lol. tbh i dont take on anyone i dont know. i have had a good lad who did come from college. he was a time served painter and decorator, he had done that for 12 years and wanted a change, he did 1 year at college, left with all his tickets and i gave him a job. within 5 seconds of him opening the climbing bag i knew he hadnt a clue what to do. i had given him a 10 foot cony to trim. it was a matter of sticking the steps up and hedge cutting it. he was hanging on for dear life on this skinny little tree, harness loose, tool strop with saw loose and the nose in the dirt, and no strop. wtf. he also put the spikes on the wrong feet soon after. he told me he had a go once, the college only had 1 set of spikes, so it took a whole day for everyone to climb a 30foot pole. if you could do this in about 4 mins you passed. double wtf. he turned out to be the best worker i have ever had, but it had nothing to do with college. he was punctual,polite,honest and hard working. totally useless with a saw even after 3 years. but his mind set was right. i only ever put him in a harness a few times, the last time was for a laugh, he was up about 20feet on an alder and i was trying to get him to knock the head out , so he could at least say he done one. it had a good lean on it, you could tell him to do anything and he would of, no understanding for wood, weight, lean, he hadnt a scubby. he was cutting so slow that when the head broke off it was below horizintal, so he got a big pidoingy. i can still hear his screams. lol. but he was awesome at mashing up branches with a blunt saw. i would shout ' does that need a bit of a rub?' i could hear the saw screaming its head off, but no he was happy burning his way through stuff.

[skyhuck]

think that would be company law!!

 

No "company law" I know of

 

What if you don't run a company?

[Andy Clark]

oh this is going to get good now:thumbup:, deep breath huck, hold it, hold it, now go:001_smile:

 

 

Strangely enough, i think the fight concerning this topic is taking place on another thread....

 

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/employment/9159-instructor-technician-sparsholt-college.html

 

 

Seconds out... round 2!

[skyhuck]

 

 

Well no, not really THAT very.....

 

I mean, long and short of it comes down to liability.

 

If you employ person/persons without the necessary and relevant quals for the job in hand and something goes wrong, you're liable..... and open for prosecution under the H&SWA.

 

Simple!

 

 

 

NPTC is ONE way of fulfilling your requirements as an employer, but their are others.

 

I just really don't like the way people talk about NPTC as if its a chainsaw license.

 

If your are self employed its a whole other story.

[Andy Clark]

i find the word crap a nice fun term, now if you want a harsh word then i better not say it on here lol. tbh i dont take on anyone i dont know. i have had a good lad who did come from college. he was a time served painter and decorator, he had done that for 12 years and wanted a change, he did 1 year at college, left with all his tickets and i gave him a job. within 5 seconds of him opening the climbing bag i knew he hadnt a clue what to do. i had given him a 10 foot cony to trim. it was a matter of sticking the steps up and hedge cutting it. he was hanging on for dear life on this skinny little tree, harness loose, tool strop with saw loose and the nose in the dirt, and no strop. wtf. he also put the spikes on the wrong feet soon after. he told me he had a go once, the college only had 1 set of spikes, so it took a whole day for everyone to climb a 30foot pole. if you could do this in about 4 mins you passed. double wtf. he turned out to be the best worker i have ever had, but it had nothing to do with college. he was punctual,polite,honest and hard working. totally useless with a saw even after 3 years. but his mind set was right. i only ever put him in a harness a few times, the last time was for a laugh, he was up about 20feet on an alder and i was trying to get him to knock the head out , so he could at least say he done one. it had a good lean on it, you could tell him to do anything and he would of, no understanding for wood, weight, lean, he hadnt a scubby. he was cutting so slow that when the head broke off it was below horizintal, so he got a big pidoingy. i can still hear his screams. lol. but he was awesome at mashing up branches with a blunt saw. i would shout ' does that need a bit of a rub?' i could hear the saw screaming its head off, but no he was happy burning his way through stuff.

 

 

Do you know what course he did?? What qual he came away with??

[Stephen Blair]

didnt pay any attention after he put the spikes on the wrong legs tbh mate. he came to me looking for a climbing position, he was a labourer for 3 years. he had a bad habit of never taking a tool strop with him, and liked using prussik loops instead of a flip line. he liked to choker them onto the tree. i would catch him at it when i wasnt there. he got stuck up a pollarded lime one day aswell with a extendable hedge cutter the prussik didnt come in very handy at all.. he would also stand ontop of the last rung on the steps when hedge cutting, used to give me nightmares. he could balance there all day, a painters trick i reckon.

[Andy Clark]

 

NPTC is ONE way of fulfilling your requirements as an employer, but their are others.

 

I just really don't like the way people talk about NPTC as if its a chainsaw license.

 

If your are self employed its a whole other story.

 

 

I never mentioned anything about NPTCs.... just 'relevant quals'.

 

The downside of it is though, with the acedemic quals the way they are, what other way than a certificate of competency (licence as you call it), PROVES competency and therefore covers the liability??

 

And currently what are the competency certs that the industry recognises...... ??

 

 

NPT what??