College and what the industry really needs

[Joe Newton]

Believe it or not we do tell them from the start to cut at ground level.. some just don't listen.

 

 

Funny that, when a lad comes to us from college we tell them to forget about felling at ground level and fell where is comfortable.

 

We also have to best out of them the habit of snapping the chain brake on at full revs. That noise gives me a nervous twitch!

[MWArb]

Funny that, when a lad comes to us from college we tell them to forget about felling at ground level and fell where is comfortable.

 

We also have to best out of them the habit of snapping the chain brake on at full revs. That noise gives me a nervous twitch!

 

We have to teach forestry cuts and on a real fc contract so its ground level or nothing.. obviously you learn in wider Arboriculture the sound wood may be higher or the fell simpler at different heights but for cs31, the fc and the assessor we use its the ground...

 

The chain brake is my pet hate.. if I hear it snap on at high revs I'm furious, there's no need... More importantly you want it in tip top shape incase the inertia brake is needed and that's how I tell it...

The modernising of arb instruction is a big task.. as I've mentioned before, Arboriculture moves quickly but education moves slowly.. that said, its in our interest to produce lads and lasses you want in your teams.

[silky fox]

I hate that noise...like nails down a blackboard.

[MWArb]

Experience is not every thing,however there is no substitute for it.

 

Most of every operation I do at production speed is outside of "best practice" as that principle is designed to be within the capabilities of the newest operator.

 

Most students should pull brush,advancement in a crew is a privilege not a right.Getting stuck in and proving you are worthy of investment starts with applying ones self to any job and quickly completing it to your best ability.

 

Just because Students are on a course to learn how to climb,does not mean that they have a right to do so on someone elses job during work experiance.

 

This is my big problem.. I'm not claiming here to be whiter than white in my capacity as a freelancer, nor do I sit here with 15 years experience to call on , but 2 things are clear, 1: I have to teach best practice as they are all newest operators. and 2: you can't stop a lad or lass getting a couple of tickets and presuming they know it all... I make it clear to all my students that they have maybe only just earned the right to join a team, nothing more.. the tickets get the job, not the higher position.. longevity and progression must be earned! i feel this is a relatively new approach as I'm not just an Instructor but a business owner and freelance climber as well. one of the reasons I was chosen, I believem was because I was a solid connection to the industry itself rather than just the knowledge.

[MWArb]

I would love a day or two at your college..take some practicals so you could see how I teach. I have my very own style of coaching that I have seen work many times.

 

Mr Fox, I'm going to try and tie your visit (see how I did that:sneaky2:, now you wanna come see me) in with a guest appearance with my newest group.

We'll work out the logistics of it once I'm back at work.

[silky fox]

I'm up for that! Any time after Xmas. You name a time and a place and I'll be there.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

We have to teach forestry cuts and on a real fc contract so its ground level or nothing.. obviously you learn in wider Arboriculture the sound wood may be higher or the fell simpler at different heights but for cs31, the fc and the assessor we use its the ground...

 

The chain brake is my pet hate.. if I hear it snap on at high revs I'm furious, there's no need... More importantly you want it in tip top shape incase the inertia brake is needed and that's how I tell it...

The modernising of arb instruction is a big task.. as I've mentioned before, Arboriculture moves quickly but education moves slowly.. that said, its in our interest to produce lads and lasses you want in your teams.

 

And there is the great circle back to the industry setting the standard but the industry not being happy with the product delivered from the standard it created!

 

The difficulty in closing the perceived gap between what (the various levels and specialisations) of 'the industry' thinks it needs, and that which NPTC training and assessment schedules deliver is that practitioners are probably unaware of the training design process which has resulted in the formation of the NPTC schedules - otherwise they wouldn't keep banging on about poor output from college - college delivers the schedule agreed by the top table of industry experts.

 

It's the training advisory groups (those at the top of the industry and in positions of influence through experience or qualification) that discuss and agree the training schedules.

 

College and training centres deliver training to satisfy that schedule which has been designed and ratified by industry and delivered via NPTC.

 

Employers at the working level then need to refine the general standard that has been designed to satisfy a fairly broad church of industry requirements to meet their particular need.

 

One size does not fit all and that simple example of cutting height is a classic. Forestry, as the biggest player at the table, gets the loudest voice and forestry, as a general rule, would require close to ground cutting. Arb or landscaping or domestic doesn't really care about the stump height, cut it safe and comfortable then dress it off later according to the customer requirement.

 

Honing and refining the specific skills and building experience in the workforce cannot be within the scope of the training deliverer, it has to be with the employer.

[Stephen Blair]

Stop giving everyone tickets for prussiking up a 20 ft straight sycamore within a 4 minute window!!!

The college should place litter outside the front door of their building, alongside a pull up bar.

If they pick something up and place in a bin and can do 3 pull ups, the door opens.

The college will put anyone through a course, then we have to deal with the ones who will never manage the work, they are either not fit enough, not intelligent enough or just have a wrong attitude.

The latter is the problem, you can train skill and fitness but attitude is the problem. We have to pick up where someone failed when they were 11. Basic manners and morals is what's missing.

This job is dragging branches, chipping them and cutting bits off tree, that's It! Experience and effort builds their skill level.

But if someone turns up with laces untied, not prepared for the day and is basically a little pita who feels the world owes them a favour, then no amount of tickets is going to get them a job within a small company, maybe a big 1 where they are a number.

For all the rest who are nice polite hardworking people, young and old, do not fear, it will all fall into place and you will succeed in anything you try!!

[easy-lift guy]

^^^, Pretty much sums it up.

easy-lift guy

[Yorkshireman]

Work ethic is the start of everything, for success at work.

 

some underlying issues , NOS, lantra ,nptc HSe FIsa, confor ,FC, AA, Isa, large business all have input, too many cooks springs to mind...

 

currently students are taught to work as individuals , but all ARb work is teamwork.

 

colleges who propagate their own instructors run the risk of repeating the same mistakes,

 

pathways to learning and reading materials and method & processes change in industry way faster than ,education centres can usually absorb into formal framework qualifications..

 

I've known of colleges accepting students who on application didn't meet the minimum requirement of entry , counter intuitive, if they've got a standard then stick too it as if not then its a slippery slope of below par is good enough, WELL ITS NOT

in retail terms if you stack em high enough and sell em cheap enough your on a winner,

 

commercial experience can only really come from either doing the job with experienced operators in a team or having an experienced operator teaching the student what the day to day requirements are & these requirement darent covered in most cases, this doesn't mean someone instructing who was in industry 210 years ago. or done 2 years at college without real world experinece as really courses are entry level ,

 

in my military days , I did training, then went to my unit, & they said to forget the training its out of date , heres what we do sunshine now crack on !!

 

So is the model of understanding the need in industry, not the heart of issue for colleges..

 

as to placements ,, businesses do take punts on new employees and with that there is a risk in production dips, BUT we all started somewhere, & most folks are wise enough to take a balanced view,

if college struggle to place candidates then out of Funding why not incentivise businesses, they need to make money as do colleges.