The Pitfalls Of Importing !

[forestry]

I for one think fair play mr forestry, if you can get the same product cheaper and still sell at market value then thats a logical choice for YOUR business to make more profit! Its not your responsibility to support other businesses. harsh but true

 

However if you were selling at below market value at a price uk suppliers couldn't compete with, that would be bad practice, or just not very nice

 

As long as its legal, fair enough!

 

Josharb, Thanks, I am not on here to argue that importation of the product I posted pictures of is acceptable, it is clearly not.

Unfortunately a lot of people on here claim importing firewood responsibly is wrong, simply because it means competition for them, yet they are the biggest hypocrites who will have any number of food, drink, goods etc that are imported.

If anything, the product I sell is much more expensive than the locally produced product, which can only help push their prices up.

[gensetsteve]

Gensetsteve are you another person who only wears clothes manufactured in the UK, have a look at the labels on your forestry kit.

 

And yes, the idea of running a business is to fill your bank account and yes " stuff everyone else"it is called is competition. But I guess you run a non profit organisation, your not interested in making money !

 

Yes I wear clothes from overseas. Do I have a choice we make very little clothing in the uk now. You can still make a good profit and run an ethical business.

What is the minimum wage in Latvia do they even have one ? the cost of living is much lower in Latvia including the cost of housing so no way we can compete with that.

Most large companies are looking to buy at a £1 and sell for £4 and leave the producer with 20p

[forestry]

Yes I wear clothes from overseas. Do I have a choice we make very little clothing in the uk now. You can still make a good profit and run an ethical business.

What is the minimum wage in Latvia do they even have one ? the cost of living is much lower in Latvia including the cost of housing so no way we can compete with that.

Most large companies are looking to buy at a £1 and sell for £4 and leave the producer with 20p

 

"Do I have a choice we make very little clothing in the uk now?" Yes you do have a choice, just you choose to ignore it but are happy to preach it should be different for firewood because it competes with your business = hypocrisy

 

"You can still make a good profit and run an ethical business." Yes you can, which is exactly what I run. My company has donated goods and cash to charity orgainisations in excess of £2500 this year, so do not preach to me about ethical businesses.

 

"What is the minimum wage in Latvia do they even have one ?" Yes they do, it currently stands at 1.94 euro/hour. All my suppliers staff are guaranteed 2.5 euros per hour.

 

"the cost of living is much lower in Latvia including the cost of housing so no way we can compete with that." Welcome to the real world. You do compete with it at present. I currently retail a bulk bag of logs at £144, I suspect you sell for much less. Did you mean I cant compete with you ?

 

"Most large companies are looking to buy at a £1 and sell for £4 and leave the producer with 20p". Yes that is business. Nobody is holding a gun to the producers head. If you feel you are not making enough as the producer, heres a tip for you, put your prices up.

[Eddy_t]

Yes I am comparing it in the same "context" when talking about, losing jobs etc.

 

Where have I mentioned or disagreed with the threat from improperly imported timber ?

 

We as importers take biosecurity very seriously and only recently had our FC Plant Health inspection which we passed without any issues.

 

 

Your first post on this thread was about a friends shipment being soaking wet and mouldy. That isn't very bio-secure. The problem I see with importing timber is that until it arrives, you don't know what state it's in. And if it's in a condition like that, do you send it back, or stuff it somewhere until it's dry and usable? 40% MC is the type of values I generally expect in summer or mid winter from fresh cut timber

[ben_inthewoods]

The self certification at the exporter side is the weak link in the chain and FC/DEFRA/FERA are fully aware of this but are under resourced and are bound to work within EU rules which are slacker than most other trading zones.

 

Try importing unprocessed spruce into the UK? you can't because of Ips

 

The newly launched Plant Health Risk Register deals with all current and on the horizon plant health issues and whether it is tatties or logs the risks are objectively assessed.

 

Firewood and bark of some tree species if not heat treated is a risk (ALHB, EAB, Bronse birch borer etc), properly treated it is a lower risk.

 

If all business was acting above board the risk and worry associated with importing kilned firewood/packaging etc would not be an issue. There are unfortunately some businesses in all sectors and this will include firewood/plant importers that cut corners to make a better cut (think of pet passports, horse meat, plant passports).

 

As said the impact of these diseases/pathogens is objectively assessed via the plant health risk register, but still once out in the wider environment the cost of dealing with them is huge and crucially rarely effective in getting the genie back in the bottle.

 

Firewood is not a highly processed commodity and my own opinion is that a more cautious approach is needed that that of importing cotton t-shirts.

 

With firewood in particular the carbon calculation of importing is one which i would like to know more about. Carbon calcs are required for all products including timber in the construction trade. Firewood would fair significantly worse than construction wood as the carbon is not stored - anyone done the sum or been asked to do the sum for RHI?

[renewablejohn]

Part of the BSL supplier register for approved RHI supply includes carbon calcs for both transport and drying. I would hope that kiln drying and import from Latvia is above the carbon threshold otherwise the whole system becomes a mockery.

[forestry]

Your first post on this thread was about a friends shipment being soaking wet and mouldy. That isn't very bio-secure. The problem I see with importing timber is that until it arrives, you don't know what state it's in. And if it's in a condition like that, do you send it back, or stuff it somewhere until it's dry and usable? 40% MC is the type of values I generally expect in summer or mid winter from fresh cut timber

 

Eddy,

 

As I have said previously, I completely agree this is far from acceptable and that was the gist of my post, I was suggesting that this is a pitfall for importing from an unknown foreign exporter.

If importing is done through a responsible reputable importer ( I would always ask for references ) you should never receive goods that do not comply with current plant health regulations. Most importers are subject to FC Plant Health inspections both at warehouse facilities and random container inspection at point of import ( ie The Docks ). We today have a container detained for a general inspection at the port, generally this happens to about 1 in 20. As long as you work closely with your supplier these inspections should never be an issue, in fact we welcome them.

Most exporters require full or half payment up front and this is where refusing a container can become difficult if you choose to reject.

My advice would be to source from a reliable responsible importer or go and visit the supplier in his country of origin and satisfy yourself he is carrying out his business in a responsible manner.

I would also advise that should anyone open a container to find what the pictures show you should immediately reject and close the container up ASAP, which in the case of the pictures shown, that is exactly what the person did.

[forestry]

The self certification at the exporter side is the weak link in the chain and FC/DEFRA/FERA are fully aware of this but are under resourced and are bound to work within EU rules which are slacker than most other trading zones.

 

Try importing unprocessed spruce into the UK? you can't because of Ips

 

The newly launched Plant Health Risk Register deals with all current and on the horizon plant health issues and whether it is tatties or logs the risks are objectively assessed.

 

Firewood and bark of some tree species if not heat treated is a risk (ALHB, EAB, Bronse birch borer etc), properly treated it is a lower risk.

 

If all business was acting above board the risk and worry associated with importing kilned firewood/packaging etc would not be an issue. There are unfortunately some businesses in all sectors and this will include firewood/plant importers that cut corners to make a better cut (think of pet passports, horse meat, plant passports).

 

As said the impact of these diseases/pathogens is objectively assessed via the plant health risk register, but still once out in the wider environment the cost of dealing with them is huge and crucially rarely effective in getting the genie back in the bottle.

 

Firewood is not a highly processed commodity and my own opinion is that a more cautious approach is needed that that of importing cotton t-shirts.

 

With firewood in particular the carbon calculation of importing is one which i would like to know more about. Carbon calcs are required for all products including timber in the construction trade. Firewood would fair significantly worse than construction wood as the carbon is not stored - anyone done the sum or been asked to do the sum for RHI?

 

Ben,

 

I agree with your post, however, at no point did I infer or otherwise suggest that there needed to be as much caution when importing cotton tee shirts. The suggestion from you that I had is rather disingenuous of you.

[gensetsteve]

I am not really putting up a very good argument as I cant be bothered to debate with someone called forestry who does not actually excist. No company name, No email address, location or website address anywhere. For all I know a 14 year old kid.

[skyhuck]

Much of this thread reminds me of the guys who moan about being undercut on tree work prices and then their next post is "who's the cheapest insurer?":sneaky2: