Petz Zillon now in store!

[Johny Walker]

or just buy a gadget that can use any rope of choice ,with out been tyd , with what they want to sell you ,

 

p/s

how the feck do you get the eyes thru the gadget wen you need to purt a new rope in

Edited April 19, 2014 by Johny Walker

[Mark_Skyland]

Would the Zillon be a more desirable if it was a stand alone item, ie just the mechanical device excluding the rope?

 

It would e cheaper and therefore bring it closer in price to more mainstream current lanyard devices.

 

It is a nice bit of kit but I can see that around 2 times the price of the current most popular lanyard devices it is pushing itself out there.

 

Has anyone used one and would like to comment on its + and - ?

 

Negative comments (well, constructive ones) are what push products forward so IMO are the most important ones.

[treequip]

Maybe, but when that ropes worn, theres nothing stopping someone putting a different rope in the same device

 

Absolutely, I have run my Grillon with all sorts of rope but I did so knowing that if it went wrong I would have no come back on the manufacturer because I was using the device outside its CE mark.

[Marc]

Absolutely, I have run my Grillon with all sorts of rope but I did so knowing that if it went wrong I would have no come back on the manufacturer because I was using the device outside its CE mark.

 

How so? I think it would be difficult in a court of law to say that although the rope is not the original Petzl part as long as it's of suitable construction it should not impede the safety of the device, if it's so critical you could argue the device is not suitable if it so strictly relies on only a specific type of rope.

 

A bit like saying I can not use an ANSI spec rope to climb on as it has no CE/EN so you telling me it's ok for commercial use in America but as soon as I use it in the UK it becomes illegal?! Even suicidal!

[treequip]

How so? I think it would be difficult in a court of law to say that although the rope is not the original Petzl part as long as it's of suitable construction it should not impede the safety of the device, if it's so critical you could argue the device is not suitable if it so strictly relies on only a specific type of rope.

 

A bit like saying I can not use an ANSI spec rope to climb on as it has no CE/EN so you telling me it's ok for commercial use in America but as soon as I use it in the UK it becomes illegal?! Even suicidal!

 

Anything you have modified is food for greasy lawyers.

 

The court will decide based upon the evidence provided and the burden of proof would be on you to demonstrate that the rope you used was as suitable as the one the manufacturer provided. That's going to take some doing.

 

 

And the bit in bold is putting words in my mouth and you need to stop doing that. I said nothing of the kind and throwing words like illegal and suicidal in is just unnecessary emotive rhetoric.

[Marc]

Anything you have modified is food for greasy lawyers.

 

The court will decide based upon the evidence provided and the burden of proof would be on you to demonstrate that the rope you used was as suitable as the one the manufacturer provided. That's going to take some doing.

 

 

And the bit in bold is putting words in my mouth and you need to stop doing that. I said nothing of the kind and throwing words like illegal and suicidal in is just unnecessary emotive rhetoric.

 

Yeah sorry for the emotive language I am in funny mood this morning, and was not trying to put words in your mouth just me being silly. None of us really now for sure do we?

In my opinion it would be hard for them to prove that using another low stretch kernmantle other than Petzls would be inappropriate assuming that the original is an EN1891 rope of certain diameter replaced with another en1891 rope of same diameter from different manufacturer.

 

After all we often use lanyards/systems made up of different components bundled together to meet our needs, none of which have been tested together as a complete CE certified system.

 

I feel on these grounds it would be hard to argue replacement of parts outside of originals with other parts of an equal standard.

I am not trying to be argumentative merely trying to evoke further discussion in my own way.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Marc

[Andrew Barrett]

Its a Petzl thing, its what they do.

 

As a business decision it makes sense to have the device and rope as a unit. It takes the variation an inappropriate rope would bring, out of the equation.

 

That doesn't make any sense either: they sell the ZigZag without rope - but not the Zillon. And the ZigZag is a main anchor setup whereas the Zillon is for lanyard use.

 

If there was some stupid legal rule that meant all manufacturers had to sell lanyard adjusters with rope then fine - but there can't be or ART wouldn't be able to sell the Positioner without rope.

[treequip]

That doesn't make any sense either: they sell the ZigZag without rope - but not the Zillon. And the ZigZag is a main anchor setup whereas the Zillon is for lanyard use.

 

If there was some stupid legal rule that meant all manufacturers had to sell lanyard adjusters with rope then fine - but there can't be or ART wouldn't be able to sell the Positioner without rope.

 

I think you need to stop comparing one companies business practices with another. Just accept that what Petzl does is what Petzl does.

[Andrew Barrett]

Would the Zillon be a more desirable if it was a stand alone item, ie just the mechanical device excluding the rope?

 

It would e cheaper and therefore bring it closer in price to more mainstream current lanyard devices.

 

It is a nice bit of kit but I can see that around 2 times the price of the current most popular lanyard devices it is pushing itself out there.

 

Has anyone used one and would like to comment on its + and - ?

 

Negative comments (well, constructive ones) are what push products forward so IMO are the most important ones.

 

Hi Mark. Yes, I would definitely consider the Zillon more desirable if it was sold more cheaply without rope. I use an 8 metre lanyard in a hip bag so that I can also use it as a temporary 2nd anchor point. I'm assuming both Petzl Zillon and ART Positioner would both be ok for this (on doubled rope) as they are basically same as used for main anchor set ups anyway?

 

And I can tell you for certain that it is not just me who thinks this. I have just visited a self-employed friend who uses a 7 metre lanyard in a hip bag (I copied his setup). And he has recently bought an ART Positioner with swivel and thinks it's great. I will also be placing an order for ART Positioner with Swivel next week. I would probably have bought Zillon as have recently bought ZigZag (from you) and like it - but Zillon set up doesn't meet my requirements.

[aspen]

Hi Mark. Yes, I would definitely consider the Zillon more desirable if it was sold more cheaply without rope. I use an 8 metre lanyard in a hip bag so that I can also use it as a temporary 2nd anchor point. I'm assuming both Petzl Zillon and ART Positioner would both be ok for this (on doubled rope) as they are basically same as used for main anchor set ups anyway?

 

And I can tell you for certain that it is not just me who thinks this. I have just visited a self-employed friend who uses a 7 metre lanyard in a hip bag (I copied his setup). And he has recently bought an ART Positioner with swivel and thinks it's great. I will also be placing an order for ART Positioner with Swivel next week. I would probably have bought Zillon as have recently bought ZigZag (from you) and like it - but Zillon set up doesn't meet my requirements.

 

What hip bag do you use mate?