2 climbers?

[Andy Collins]

I think we a need to look at different ways of doing our work, modifying and adapting our skills to take us to the next level. To see ideas in video shows the pros and cons of ideas, and the fact we are discussing such ideas here shows we are giving these ideas due consideration, and maybe even improving on them.

[18 stoner]

The system was perfect and in no way unsafe.I assumed the video showed this,sorry if You guys dont understand.This was a great day for my crew.

 

Maybe unsafe for those who cannot see themselves doing it.Presuming to judge a technique that you can not handle or havent been a part of is offensive to me. This is the reason I dont use subs as climbers.many loose cannons or "cowboys" think they are better than others and try to get too much money.I train my guys and If I can not do the tree I dont send them up. Labeling my work as unsafe without knowing WTH you are blowin is enough to listen too. let people be critics,some can see the new way is better. Oh what is "SOP" ?

 

I am sorry, but i still cannot see the reason or justification for dropping that sized top onto the speed line.

 

In my opinion, it either should not have been attached to the speed line when the top was cut, or the speedline should have been much slacker.

 

Also, why stop the top instead of letting run a little more, then re-attaching/re-tesioning the speedline.

 

Surely, if it were carried out how i see it, the climbers wouldnt get such a massive ride.

 

I do understand we should all move forward and try out new techniques, kit etc, but from that video, that proceedure seems to be a step backwards in my opinion. Surely we should be looking for the "safest" way first and foremost.

 

Any questions and criticizms you have recieved, have been based upon this video alone and the way you defend the practices within it.

 

Perhaps a constructive reply would be more appropriate from you Rob, explaining why you are carrying out this way of working, and why it is safer, instead of calling people loose cannons or cowboys outside of your own training ideals.

[Ian Leach]

Standard Operating Proceduer I think ???

[Mark Bolam]

I appreciate two climbers can rig more quickly than one, but realistically how much time would you save in this situation?

 

We have done it a couple of times, high climber rigging conifer tips, low climber cutting bottom of vertical stems.

 

BUT, there was no shock loading, each climber had a separate anchor and the lowering point was on a separate stem. Climbers were separated by approx 20'. Worked ok, and saved a bit of time in a tight drop zone.

 

When any climber goes for a shock ride it's bad. When he has an unnecessary 90kgs beside him it's worse.

 

This thread has turned into a bit of a 'everyone is marching out of step apart from me' situation.

[RobDog]

I always go back to Harry Carey Sr in "angel and the badman"

 

" Quirt Evans You dont rate a new rope with me"

 

always use a new rope with each SL job

 

 

I suppose you all might feel different if you were on one of my SL jobs? I am confident of it.

[Dean Lofthouse]

My only critisism Rob is what has already been said, the shock loading when the top came off, you have already side loaded the stem with a tensioned speed line, but then to shock load it with a massive top dropped such a distance ??

 

Had the top been arrested gradually, I wouldn't have a problem. Yes stem may have been sound, but we have all come across stems with hidden internal flaws.

 

I wouldn't have liked to have been the one going for a ride up there and nearly gaffing out as a result, the saws were swinging around like dolly partons tits at a rodeo

[pence162no]

What's the recommended safe working load for that zip line/strops/Karabiners combination Rob, and how much would you estimate the top weighed?

 

If, for example the top weighed half a ton which it easily could have, and it dropped 9ft, the effective weight put on that zip line would have been 5ton!

 

That's about 2 and a half of your average American family cars.

 

I'm not sure I'd have wanted to be anywhere near that rope, let alone attached to that tree when someone dropped 5ton on it.

Edited April 23, 2009 by pence162no

[Mesterh]

Looks like the line didnt snap or the tree fail so a good job all in eh

[Big 'Ammer]

[quote=RobDog;128472

always use a new rope with each SL job

 

I shouldn't wonder.

[Dean Lofthouse]

Looks like the line didnt snap or the tree fail so a good job all in eh

 

That's called russian roulette isn't it ??