Employing untrained staff

[nooie]

I have started thinnng a forest and have needed to take on another cutter. A local guy is keen to start, but he hasn't any qualifications yet and the company will be paying for his training and exam and all PPE. It took me a long time to get on a course myself and am now wondering if I do some "in house training" as they say, can he work with a saw untill he gets the proper qualifications?

 

Thanks

[Dan Earp]

He can but only under close supervision, and if something did go wrong i believe it would go down on you.

 

But others will tell you in more detail bud

[18 stoner]

Needs to be under your direct supervision.

 

You may find it wont be too productive if you play it straight as you should be watching over him more than actually cutting yourself.

[nooie]

Thanks for the replies. I guess I can do a wee bit with him while I try and get him on a course as soon as possible..

[codlasher]

When I started at the tender age of fifteen the rule was NO CHAINSAWS. They were heavy, difficult to start and certainly had no chain brakes. I think they were Danarm saws but its thirty nine years ago so I've forgotten except they were yellow and much cursed by their Scottish operators!

Me and my mate Robert were each given an axe, flat file and a 'bushman' bow saw. We were shown how to sharpen the nicks out of a blunt axe and then shown how to sned a tree working upwards from the bottom branches, each carefully cut flush to the main trunk. If not we had to go over it again until our foreman, Roddy, was satisfied. The bushman was for the thicker limbs and the rustic pole that was always cut from the top (another forgotten part!)

This work, apart from teaching us the rudiments of the job in hand also strengthened our arms and taught control over our tools which could, and did, inflict cuts and bruises with careless use. Oh for the wonderful Silky saws available today! But we got the job done and with pride too.

It's surprising just how quickly even a biggish tree can be cleaned ready for crosscutting with simple tools and a good operator. No noise, no fuel used and the fellow/lassie is learning all the time without the risks or costs of using a motorised saw.

In my opinion this is a big part of early training that has been overlooked along with accurate cutting to length!

Let him sned with you having done the felling, then you can walk back to see how things are progressing and do the x cutting while you are visiting. I suppose its similar to a two man chain saw operation with the fuelling point at a point half way between so you can check on your buddy. I have a feeling that you will be surprised how well the work progresses once you get into a groove.

codlasher.

[doobin]

With me it was like this (subcontractor to contractor working on local nature reserve):

 

Him: Ok, so start on Monday. Oh, have you got any tickets?

 

Me: No

 

Him: Well I've told the Trust you have, so if anyone asks?

 

Me: Got it.

 

Straight in to felling 1000+ 8-24"DBH birch trees on open access land. Scary! With a borrowed 023.

 

Took me a while to get the hang of a felling cut, but I was a natural by the end

 

This was only around 7 years ago BTW

[Ryan]

With me it was like this (subcontractor to contractor working on local nature reserve):

 

Him: Ok, so start on Monday. Oh, have you got any tickets?

 

Me: No

 

Him: Well I've told the Trust you have, so if anyone asks?

 

Me: Got it.

 

Straight in to felling 1000+ 8-24"DBH birch trees on open access land. Scary! With a borrowed 023.

 

Took me a while to get the hang of a felling cut, but I was a natural by the end

 

This was only around 7 years ago BTW

 

I like it! Im in 12000 Norway spruce at the minute and not a ticket in sight. A bit different though as Im not working for anybody.

[Matthew Storrs]

I was employed for 4 years climbing and grounding before I got my tickets and did some serious trees in that time plus doing street trees for the council and other such organisations.

Looking back I suppose it was a bit naughty of my boss really but there we go I didn't have any accidents, did plenty of good jobs and can honestly say that not having the ticket made absolutely no difference in the world.

Got them now since I started on my own but really I'm just 2grand poorer and gained very little by actually doing the tickets other then validating my insurance.

[Yorkshire Brummie]

Did my tickets 10 years ago, found the courses good and the examiners fairly hard on me but fair. The CS units gave me confidence and knowledge, but I think what sticks in my mind the most, was the common sense and safe working practice advice from an old farmer mate of mine who set me on my way. He had no tickets of any sort but years of experience working sharp hand tools and early chainsaws pre. chain brakes etc. There is no substitute for learning the right way, and in my opinion if CS examinations were kept at a high standard, it would benefit us all. The Cowboys would stick out like a sore thumb. I guess it is naive for me to say why don't Arb insurance companies demand to see proof of tickets before covering, and it made illegal for a anyone to employ a contractor to carry out Arb work without the relevant quals! Cloud cuckoo land I guess.....

[Swampster]

Someone can have a thousand 'tickets' and still be useless. Experience is worth a lot and it is sorely undervalued in today's world of work.