How to crash an industry

[apexarb]

Maybe if there were less accidents in the Arb/forestry sector we wouldnt need so much refreshing. Many accidents occur across the board, age is irrelevant, experience is irrelevant. Examples shown in http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg278.pdf show that LA personnel (who we'd assume would have refreshers coming out of their backsides) make mistakes, self-employed workers make mistakes, foresters etc etc. it really makes no difference who you are. So when people like Hama come here on one of their missions to save us from ourselves, just bear in mind that that one tit-bit of information shared on a refresher could maybe save your life.

well said

 

terry

[treequip]

o.k, you all win, i resign to your valued opinions, just remember though, that when you are tight for cash and want to take on NEW training but cant because you just blew your training budget re training for old tickets you passed ten twenty years ago, remember this one!

 

Before you go I just want to mention a thread you started about teaching old dogs new tricks.

 

What would your opinion of refresher training be if you had learned that in a refresher?

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Before you go I just want to mention a thread you started about teaching old dogs new tricks.

 

What would your opinion of refresher training be if you had learned that in a refresher?

 

I was told by an assessor that my gob cuts should be started with the top cut, i prefer bottom cut first, just they way i roll.

 

nptc assesments are basic and to asses you are mINIMAL level competence, am I seriously to consider myself of such needs? i mean the need to be evaluated as to me being of a MINIMUM level standard?

 

NO, NO, NO:thumbdown:

 

Minimum standards are for newbies, not seasoned pros, they are entry level certificates for assurance of some reasonable level of ability to use a saw in a given task.

 

i am a PRO, this by its nature indicates i am BEYOND MINIMUM requirements, I have NPTC certs coming out of my eyeballs, I was taking trees down with cranes at age 17.

 

I am GOOD at what i do, and no body, not even some assesor can tell me otherwise, I would like to see them try!

[Andy Collins]

I am in awe of you, Tony

[Adam Bourne]

I don't know really why i'm bothering to reply to this thread as i don't see why it is a big issue.....But here Goes.

 

For a while now i've been suffering from a condition i can't explain, i wake up and go to work......(normal you might say) but not if every single minute of the day you think to yourself you are not coming home, and every move in the tree i think could be my last.......this all started when my little girl was born last year, and after a year its calmed down a little but i still get thoughts now and then......

 

but after a nice bit of advice from Rupe yesterday (who IMO is and absolute star) i went to work this morning feeling better about my self and the thoughts of something going wrong was there but nowhere near as bad as what they've been this last year....

 

Now i've been climbing now for nearly 13 years i'm as safe and experienced and a dam good climber as they come, and i think that refresher coarse's are a good thing, in the sense that we stay out of getting into bad habbits and don't deny it as we all do the odd one hand cut and catch now and then....Now in Rupes advice he advised me to take a refresher coarse which IMO will give me some reasurance back and keep me up to date with a few other things.....so these people just don't want your money like its been said but they are here to save your life or to stop you doing something you all say .........Me have an accident na i'm to good to have an accident that will never happen to me..... Year Right o.... but once its done its to late..... Thanks for the advice Rupe i'll remember what you told me for years to come...

[skyhuck]

What if someone has never had any formal training at all.

 

I only went and got assessed.

 

If I've never been trained, I can't be "refreshed"

 

Coming on here is great for leaning new things or getting advice.

 

Trees are just the same today as they were 17+ years ago when I first started. Some equipment is better, which makes things safer, so I don't really see the need to spend money to get bits of paper.

 

If people want to go and get some more training thats great.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I am in awe of you, Tony

 

you knew what i was saying, not bigging it up, just stating the total and utter waste of time retraining for saw use is to me.

 

like i said, no one else seems to think its a bad thing, that it will possibly prevent accidents NOT IMO, bad users are bad users, you can teach them all the tricks in the book, but turn your back and they will bend the rules, its the way some folk are.

 

if you REALLY want to up the game and prevent accidents stop firms from getting in young lads fresh out of a 10 week arb course and throwing them up some massive section fell or out to some woodland to fell a load of timber.

 

ease the lads into things that take skill, skill that cant be learnt or bought for the price of 20 NPTC tickets, and remove fatigue from the equation, cos THAT is the biggest killer of all.

 

put some young lad into a group of seasoned arbs on gang pricework and see him try to keep up to earn the wage they do, then youll find your acident stats going into the wrong

[Adam Bourne]

What if someone has never had any formal training at all.

 

I only went and got assessed.

 

If I've never been trained, I can't be "refreshed"

 

Coming on here is great for leaning new things or getting advice.

 

Trees are just the same today as they were 17+ years ago when I first started. Some equipment is better, which makes things safer, so I don't really see the need to spend money to get bits of paper.

 

If people want to go and get some more training thats great.

 

I can see were you and everyone is coming from mate but if i feel that this will work for me then i'm up for it... even 5 years is a long time but still enough time to have an accident so this i feel is a bit of an arse:thumbdown: but from a of a personnel point of view i think this maybe the answer to my head ache...

 

i think your theory on first aid is a great idea ideally it should be done as much as LOLER But in the real world of money this is just not possible, unless instead of trying to change the industrie how about we let the industrie change us, its not hard to change the day rate we all work for....

 

So everyone its time to up your prices (or maybe not)

[skyhuck]

I was taking trees down with cranes at age 17.

 

:

 

if you REALLY want to up the game and prevent accidents stop firms from getting in young lads fresh out of a 10 week arb course and throwing them up some massive section fell or out to some woodland to fell a load of timber.

 

ease the lads into things that take skill, skill that cant be learnt or bought for the price of 20 NPTC tickets, and remove fatigue from the equation, cos THAT is the biggest killer of all.

 

 

:confused1:These two posts seem some what contradictory

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I can see were you and everyone is coming from mate but if i feel that this will work for me then i'm up for it... even 5 years is a long time but still enough time to have an accident so this i feel is a bit of an arse:thumbdown: but from a of a personnel point of view i think this maybe the answer to my head ache...

 

i think your theory on first aid is a great idea ideally it should be done as much as LOLER But in the real world of money this is just not possible, unless instead of trying to change the industrie how about we let the industrie change us, its not hard to change the day rate we all work for....

 

So everyone its time to up your prices (or maybe not)

 

raising the price is noit an easy thing to do these days

 

ariel rescue/first aid scenarios should be six monthly. No arguments

 

re training how to use a saw when you use it all day every day , nah waste of training budget that could should would be spent doing the rescue first aid scenarios, but what do i know, im just a big head aint I andy.

 

oh by the way, de fribulator training is 3 hours, must be done every six months, a de frib unit is 700 quid, and is the most important aspect of life saving when someone has stopped breathing, CPR will keep you going, but its the ambulance crew with a de frib that will get your heart beating.

 

and for the record I recently found out that all major supoermarkets have a defrib and trained user on site:thumbup1: REMEMBER