Authority refusing to register any works unless individual branches are specified.

[Amelanchier]

There's specific and then there is nonsense.

 

Appeal for non-determination is only sensible solution. Don't waste any more time on it - apply with as much information as you see fit, wait eight weeks and then appeal by written reps including an application for costs. It'll take longer but once you have a nice body of evidence (say three or four consents) showing that your specification is sufficient for PINS to determine then make a formal complaint under the LPA's complaint procedure regarding this obstructive practice. You might even like to demand an apology and additional compensation for the delays to your clients.

 

Here's a link to the appeal process...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/pins/tpo_app_guidance.pdf

[Gary Prentice]

There's specific and then there is nonsense.

 

Appeal for non-determination is only sensible solution. Don't waste any more time on it - apply with as much information as you see fit, wait eight weeks and then appeal by written reps including an application for costs. It'll take longer but once you have a nice body of evidence (say three or four consents) showing that your specification is sufficient for PINS to determine then make a formal complaint under the LPA's complaint procedure regarding this obstructive practice. You might even like to demand an apology and additional compensation for the delays to your clients.

 

Here's a link to the appeal process...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/pins/tpo_app_guidance.pdf

 

:thumbup: End of thread.....

[Chunkymunky]

Do it. List down to every single branch. Will take time. When they have 300 pages per tree see their reaction.

[Steve Bullman]

Do it. List down to every single branch. Will take time. When they have 300 pages per tree see their reaction.

 

They wouldn't read it

[littlerob]

just wright i need to possible to work on every branch on the tree then do whats need doing

[Arbocop]

There's specific and then there is nonsense.

 

Appeal for non-determination is only sensible solution. Don't waste any more time on it - apply with as much information as you see fit, wait eight weeks and then appeal by written reps including an application for costs. It'll take longer but once you have a nice body of evidence (say three or four consents) showing that your specification is sufficient for PINS to determine then make a formal complaint under the LPA's complaint procedure regarding this obstructive practice. You might even like to demand an apology and additional compensation for the delays to your clients.

 

Here's a link to the appeal process...

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/pins/tpo_app_guidance.pdf

 

Ditto

 

But

keep a diary speciffically for htis, keep detailed notes even on phone calls and copies of everything.

 

the unfortunate reality of this sort of idiocy is it seems to start as chinese wispers at TO group meetings, where it becomes 'a really good idear' BUT there is not a contracting voice of reson to say WTF.... do behave.

 

Ive worked in cntrcating and LA and know how htese things start. while whaiting for non determination a good dig arround the councils web site would be a good idear they are a host of info

[Robert_S]

Visit local authority.

 

Find out who's responsible for the stupidity.

 

Rapp them on the head repeatedly whilst loudly shouting Mcfly!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually don't do that.

 

:lol:that's funny Carl, I must do that to someone, just to see if they get it.

[daltontrees]

Don't the Guidelines say 'a tree the application should clarify exactly [my emphasis] what work is envisaged. A proposal simply to 'top' the tree or to 'lop' or 'cut back' some branches is too vague because it fails to describe the extent of the work. Applicants are advised not to submit their applications until they are in a position to present clear proposals'

and

'Reasons for the proposed work must be provided with the application to assist the LPA in assessing its need and suitability. In certain circumstances specific information and evidence is required to support the proposals. This is to make sure that technical information is available to justify the proposals so that the LPA is able to make an informed decision.'

and

'If the LPA receive a vague application they are advised to refer back to the applicant and seek clarification. If they grant consent to an application which is open to several interpretations the LPA may find it difficult to take enforcement action in cases where the work falls within one of those interpretations, even though the LPA believe the work exceeds that for which they intended to grant consent'

 

I am just playing devil's advocate, but on the face of it the Council's demands could in some cases be valid. They TPOd the tree to preserve its amenity and they want to be able to envisage how it will look after works, how it will recover from thos e works and whether those works will damage its health so much that it's amenity will be lost to disease. Specifying work and doing it in accordance with 3998 might be best practice but even 3998 leaves room for more than one iterpretation. It says crown thinning can be specified by stating a percentage, that lifting can be specified easily enough within acceptable limits but that specifications of reductions are 'imprecise and unsatisfactory' and should at least say what is to be left in branch lengths . Usefully it says that annotated photographs should be provided where this would be helpful in describing the desired effect.

 

So is the Council right or wrong? For a thinning, the Council is in my view being ridiculous. For a lifting it is probably within its rights and no-one should resent having to specifty a lifting. But for reductions, to me it is moot whether the Council is making excessive demand. However I lean towards a specification that states the desired effect, the underlying reasons for the work and an overall 'what will remain' dimension. The Council should then be able to foresee effect on amenity, make a decision and condition it that work should be done by competent arborist at right time of year to the BS. Thereafter they can hold a breach of consent to be work badly done not in accordance with those conditions. If they are really bungled works, the Council could possibly even prosecute for wilful damage.

 

I would hate to see this pernickety Council's approach being adopted as standard, I instinctively warm to the 'McFly' approach. But I think a poorly detailed application that goes unregistered, is a deemed refusal and is appealed won't always be granted in favour of the applicant. I think it depends on the type of work proposed, a one-policy-fits-all approach by the Council could find it failing to depend appeals.

 

That's what I think anyway.

 

In Scotland it's less clear still, but I won't get into that just now, will do battle on it if your Preservium jobsworthii outbreak spreads to north of the border.

Edited May 4, 2013 by daltontrees

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Which council is it?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Here's an extract from Department of Environment pamphlet on TPOs:

 

What happens if I carry out works to protected trees without consent?

 

It is a criminal offence to cut down, lop, top, uproot or wilfully damage a protected tree in a manner likely to destroy it, without the consent of the Department and on summary conviction you could be fined up to £100, 000 ( and on conviction on indictment, to an unlimited fine ).

 

Key phrase.....? "In a manner likely to destroy it"

 

Question.... How could it ever be proven 'beyond reasonable doubt' that the pruning (assuming it was sensible, appropriate and professionally implemented) was the direct and sole cause of destruction of the tree.

 

Personally, I think it would be almost impossible to prove / convict (even if the LAs had sufficient funds / willpower to pursue it.

 

I'm not advocating ignoring the current process (yet), but when the LA makes it so bloody frustrating to get an app approved, how long will it be before the tree owner and/or the arborist just say to hell with it....

 

I'll let you know what my address in jail is if one of my current TPO apps is declined after the 2nd request for more detail from the TO.

 

Civil Servants: a power trip or a useful contribution to society. Discuss....