forestry

[Spruce Pirate]

Thing is, you need to fund CS30,31,32,34,35. (Not digging out the new equivalents), first aid training and PPE to get 1 new person started. 4 weeks to provide that? £2-2.5k per person.

What college is going to provide that as part of a curriculum? Most initial forestry courses take a year, lucky if the students see CS30 and maybe 31 in that first year, get disillusioned and give up. I've seen this already. They don't want to sit in a classroom, and classroom hours are barely 3 days per week in some cases. Colleges want to bulk out courses to ensure trainers get paid for an entire year, not just 4 weeks.

Bear in mind that the above produces cutters, not planting, forwarder skills, tree ident and management, chippers, etc.

 

Plus you are looking for young lads and lasses that want to work on the land, not earn Ferrari owning wages. Most kids at that level won't be able to afford their own PPE, saws etc. and cutters wages won't help towards that much, will they?

 

So risk that expense, motivate the youngster so that he/she stays the course and doesn't run to MaccyD's for a physically easier job.

 

Solve the above and you'll maybe get more kids into forestry. Or all the military lads that have been hit with redundancy?

 

Well said, just about sums up all the recruitment problems this industry faces in one post.

 

Anyone got any ideas on solutions? 'cause I don't.

[NI Tree]

get the collages to do more forestry not just arb would be the step

[Logrover]

All valid points but if you start out as a cutter you have very little other career opportunities mainly as you are just seen as manual labour as once your in its hard to break out. I have done 10yrs of tree surgery and 3 years of cutting. money throws itself at you in surgery and falls out of your pocket in forestry. Especially when everyone is skimming off the top all the way down the line to you who takes the hit! Also if your self employed then no holiday pay etc so you dont work you suffer but the job is that hard that your falling asleep at 8 every night then stressed and tiring yourself out when the rates are too low that your trying too pysically hard. To top it off your always going to miss the odd branch and youl get stick for it when as said before the harvesters miss loads! as for high stumps..have you seen a harvester site??!!!! Then add to all this your either competing with a machine or given sites they cant work on (wet/mountain etc) so you cant get much done and its again more tiring..........

So who wants to go into it then.....when you can do a generic management degree and have an easier life!

ps I have a degree in forestry, nptc small to large/windblown plus other stuff which has taken me a long time to build up looking to go into forestry management side in the near future which is a natural career step.

Im really not surprised younguns dont want to do it.....

[Spruce Pirate]

To top it off your always going to miss the odd branch and youl get stick for it when as said before the harvesters miss loads! as for high stumps..have you seen a harvester site??!!!!

 

Believe it or not I once had a machine operator extracting the Michael about the height of my stumps!!! That was funny.

 

Back to the point - it's not just cutters the problem is with. Quality planters are hard to find, and if planting isn't done right the problem knocks on right down the chain. Forget the cutters and get some quality planting squads sorted out. Far too much "its only sticking a tree in the ground" mentality at all levels, especially managment.

[NI Tree]

forestry is long term crop but lots of people take the short term view ie it will do and lack the attetion too the detail cause they say it costs more which i fell is crap for example a harvester operator pushes to get through a wet patch in steed of leaving it and getting in the motor manual fellers in they end up blocking the drains and then cant get the timber out because it to wett

Edited April 18, 2013 by NI Tree

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

get the collages to do more forestry not just arb would be the step

 

Plenty of attraction to hanging off bling gear; little to timber harvesting by hand...

 

money throws itself at you in surgery and falls out of your pocket in forestry.

 

That is 100% right. I think being a cutter and nowt else is a hard life. I don't know any hand cutters with 1 penny spare; lack of money is the daily routine; very sad really. Piece rate nearly 20 years ago was the same as it is now!

[AlexB]

All valid points but if you start out as a cutter you have very little other career opportunities mainly as you are just seen as manual labour as once your in its hard to break out. I have done 10yrs of tree surgery and 3 years of cutting. money throws itself at you in surgery and falls out of your pocket in forestry. Especially when everyone is skimming off the top all the way down the line to you who takes the hit! Also if your self employed then no holiday pay etc so you dont work you suffer but the job is that hard that your falling asleep at 8 every night then stressed and tiring yourself out when the rates are too low that your trying too pysically hard. To top it off your always going to miss the odd branch and youl get stick for it when as said before the harvesters miss loads! as for high stumps..have you seen a harvester site??!!!! Then add to all this your either competing with a machine or given sites they cant work on (wet/mountain etc) so you cant get much done and its again more tiring..........

So who wants to go into it then.....when you can do a generic management degree and have an easier life!

ps I have a degree in forestry, nptc small to large/windblown plus other stuff which has taken me a long time to build up looking to go into forestry management side in the near future which is a natural career step.

Im really not surprised younguns dont want to do it.....

 

What he said!!!!

 

 

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[WMC]

Believe it or not I once had a machine operator extracting the Michael about the height of my stumps!!! That was funny.

 

Back to the point - it's not just cutters the problem is with. Quality planters are hard to find, and if planting isn't done right the problem knocks on right down the chain. Forget the cutters and get some quality planting squads sorted out. Far too much "its only sticking a tree in the ground" mentality at all levels, especially managment.

Well said. Quality planting squads. Planting now for 8 years and all the public and private sector want is trees planted quickly and cheaply. Planter has to sort out the poor ground prep etc. I've seen alot of planting squads that seen to get more work than myself due to being cheaper sometimes, like high death rates so that they gain more work in future ie beat up, they can do no wrong.

I take pride in my planting. Make sure the tree is planted correctly.

[Tom D]

We dabble occasionally. Much bigger trees than you though:001_tt2:

[Chris Sheppard]

I've only skimmed through so chances are it's probably been said already.

 

New blood - yeah right, how many youngsters really want to run a saw flat out all day in the woods when they can potentially be no worse off bunging brash through a chipepr and finishing mid afternoon.

 

Putting rates up - ultimately the wood's only worth what the wood's worth. The only real way is to cut out as many middlemen from the whole process as possible.

 

Thinking it's easy - Maybe its not the most technical of operations, but the skill is in working efficiently - fast (something plenty of people think they are), safe and presenting the timber to be as easy to extract as possible.

 

For those that do fancy it, I do think the colleges could do with pushing a bit more traditional forestry skills as I've seen some fairly straightforward situations baffle newcomers because they've not been shown how to deal with them, or they've totally over complicated things and took loads longer than they needed.

 

On the whole I love being out in the woods, sure there's lows as well as highs but it takes a hold of you and won't let go - I hit a low spot a few years ago and tried leaving it behind for a while but soon came back