Changing AV mounts

[Mortimer Firewood]

A lot of government gear comes in to a local auction house a lot of the saws have it etched on the handle how long they can use them for. So i am guessing that's why they change the av mounts every service so its the same as when it came out the factory. The other thing was some of the bigger equipment would be bought for a particular contract then be disposed of at auction with maybe 3 or 4 hours on . There was fransgaurd winches droped off with the original plastic on them. Pure madness.

[GardenKit]

How do you check them? Last time I got involved with any HAVS monitoring they used some pretty slick kit to test the vibe levels, just looking at it or giving it a twist won't tell you anything about the vibe levels will it?

 

The only way a fitter could have any idea is to swap the AV part out for a new one which would in theory restore the machine to the factory defaults, not a rip off just good practice for the poor bugger spending his working day on the end of a saw. Big outfits pay a bit more attention because they have safety officers and the world is full of ambulance chasers.

Some very valid points there.

 

In the absence of any test gear for AV, (which does not exist as far as I know) then the only way to check is to 'to look, and twist'. This would be the norm in the industry and to an experienced technician will show up weakness.

 

Of course, in this way we cannot tell if a few percent of Anti Vibe has been lost or indeed gained. (does a 'soft' rubber, or spring, absorb more vibe than a firm one?)

 

So the only way to revert to factory levels is to restore to factory levels, so I guess its down to the person paying the bills. If he wants new AV's he can have them.

 

I reckon most users will be content with just knowing they are in good condition, and probably be a bit annoyed if changing them on every service were the norm.

 

And anyway it would depend on service intervals too.

[spudulike]

British waterways were trying to bring a rule in that you could use any hand held vibrating tool for 20 mins then you had to rest (do something else ) for 2 hours.

 

Hells teeth mate - what are those workers up to, are they female, what are those vibrating tools and does it iunclude mud and waders:lol:

 

How do I get a job there:thumbup:

[Matthew Arnold]

British waterways were trying to bring a rule in that you could use any hand held vibrating tool for 20 mins then you had to rest (do something else ) for 2 hours.

 

We had a college group out with us yesterday and out of 16 students only 6 got a go on the strimmers and that was for 20 mins at a time and that was it for the day. We spent all day on the strimmers going all guns blazing. Needless to say the students weren't happy we got an area cleared within 10 mins which took them nearly an hour to clear between 3 of them.

[david wood]

we have to stick to the vibration levels on our kit, coded red, orange, yellow, green. red is things like 4.5 inch grinder and thats an hr per day max and then cant touch another machine all day. green is all day kit. all has to be recorded and too many overs and you have to explain it - however its totally open to employee honesty and its abused by many on daily basis, ie well book says i can use this saw 4hrs so i just write down 4 and not the real 6 hrs, nobody checks it.

 

although work saw is yrs and yrs old and has only had 2 av mounts in its life. gets hammered by several users so doesnt lead a good life. supposed to be tested every year but data just gets made up to ensure we can keep using it.

 

so all in all i would say changing mounts every service is madness.

[treequip]

Some very valid points there.

 

In the absence of any test gear for AV, (which does not exist as far as I know) then the only way to check is to 'to look, and twist'. This would be the norm in the industry and to an experienced technician will show up weakness.

 

Of course, in this way we cannot tell if a few percent of Anti Vibe has been lost or indeed gained. (does a 'soft' rubber, or spring, absorb more vibe than a firm one?)

 

So the only way to revert to factory levels is to restore to factory levels, so I guess its down to the person paying the bills. If he wants new AV's he can have them.

 

I reckon most users will be content with just knowing they are in good condition, and probably be a bit annoyed if changing them on every service were the norm.

 

And anyway it would depend on service intervals too.

 

Of course the kit exists, there are a whole load of industry guidelines on HAVS exposure so they MUST be able to measure and quantify it.

 

 

Rubber mounts only get harder with time. Springs are better than rubber, the difference between the stihl blowers on rubber and spring is like night and day. Exposure on the old ones is measured in moments and the new ones is a couple of hours.

 

You would be surprised the difference what you describe as a few percent can make, my hands are half wrecked from 076's and the like, young uns take heed lest you join us in the HAVS club.

[GardenKit]

Of course the kit exists, there are a whole load of industry guidelines on HAVS exposure so they MUST be able to measure and quantify it.

 

 

Rubber mounts only get harder with time. Springs are better than rubber, the difference between the stihl blowers on rubber and spring is like night and day. Exposure on the old ones is measured in moments and the new ones is a couple of hours.

 

You would be surprised the difference what you describe as a few percent can make, my hands are half wrecked from 076's and the like, young uns take heed lest you join us in the HAVS club.

 

I think you have misunderstood what I said. I have been referring to testing AV mounts. Thats the little bit of rubber and metal, or a spring.

Can you find me some kit to test those individually?. I doubt it.

 

Sure, there is kit somewhere to test overall vibration levels of the kit, but this will beyond normal dealer facilities and will require expert use to interpret the results. An increase in vibration could be due to many other factors than an AV in need of replacement.

 

I do agree that in general rubber hardens with age as it 'dries' out, losing the ingredients that keep it supple. And springs lose their temper.

 

But any saw user has seen some of his AV's go soft due to fuel and oil contamination.

 

So in respect of my opening post on this thread, I take it that you are in favour of changing your AV,s on every service?

[lakeyboy]

i was told by a council cutter they are not allowed to sharpen chains as it would no longer be an original part ie weakened and must be changed. where is this all leading to.I might start getting s/h chains though!!!!!

I was given a bag full of part used chains from someone at Ernest does they supply the council around here never had a thought as to why they weren't just sharpened as they were free haha

 

 

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[spudulike]

I personally can't imagine any dealer or service centre will have the equipment to test vibration levels - sure, the manufacturer will and specialist measurement organisations such as British Standards, MIRA and many specialist Universities but the average tech......No!

 

I would of course change AV mounts on customers request and it isn't a problem to do so and also understand the importance that the AV mounts.

 

There are other influences on vibration such as engine wear, bar wear, chain sharpness and condition, chain depth gauge maintenance, sprocket wear so AV isn't the total picture!

 

I believe the council run teams will have a duty of care and H&S procedures but many smaller run organisations will have less controls and procedure in place!

 

From much of the kit I see, many pros use their saws till they die and then worry about getting it fixed - chain brake mechs on MS200Ts are 80% of the time, unserviced, full of crud and not as sharp as the manufacture intended - not sure which is the bigger issue AV or brakes!

 

So, in short - I replace if damaged, I replace on customer request otherwise I leave them as they are which I would think most repair centres will do.

[treequip]

I think you have misunderstood what I said. I have been referring to testing AV mounts. Thats the little bit of rubber and metal, or a spring.

Can you find me some kit to test those individually?. I doubt it.

 

Sure, there is kit somewhere to test overall vibration levels of the kit, but this will beyond normal dealer facilities and will require expert use to interpret the results. An increase in vibration could be due to many other factors than an AV in need of replacement.

 

I do agree that in general rubber hardens with age as it 'dries' out, losing the ingredients that keep it supple. And springs lose their temper.

 

But any saw user has seen some of his AV's go soft due to fuel and oil contamination.

 

So in respect of my opening post on this thread, I take it that you are in favour of changing your AV,s on every service?

 

 

 

And I think you have misunderstood the process of HAVS monitoring.

 

Why would you want to test the mounts individually? You don’t test the individual mounting, you test the machine and thus all the mounts at the same time.

 

There is no interpretation of the results, the machine produces a value, that then falls in the parameters or not, simple as that.

 

When you presume to say that I am in favour or changing AV mounts at each service you are wrong to say that. It’s the narrow view of someone fixing saws. Replacing AV mounts is a good idea where appropriate but its far from the whole story, you need to take a step back and see the AV mount as a part of HAVS monitoring

 

What I am in favour of is not having people with hands in a state like mine. A couple of decades ago saws were a lot cruder than now and HAVS was unheard of and it has taken its toll on cutters of that generation.