Just a warning .......

[Andy Collins]

Another thing they were talking about is the compulsory 37hr week that they are employed for. If they're asked to go out to a job and it exceeds (with travel time) their hours, they refuse to go out until the start of their next working day. It's like a modern day work-to-rule, but instead of the Unions dictating, it's the H&S brigade so the kickback from the worker is "Well sod you then, we won't do anything, then we won't be wrong!". On a similar vein, I heard a chap tell me that the H&S inspectors were doing the rounds, so he was going to spend the day sat in his truck (utility arb sector) so they couldn't find fault with his working practices! Is this what we really want or need for Building a Better Britain???

Sorry for the slight, yet intentional derail, Ill put my soapbox away now.

Edited January 18, 2013 by Andy Collins

[Frankie Lawrence]

Another thing they were talking about is the compulsory 37hr week that they are employed for. If they're asked to go out to a job and it exceeds (with travel time) their hours, they refuse to go out until the start of their next working day. It's like a modern day work-to-rule, but instead of the Unions dictating, it's the H&S brigade so the kickback from the worker is "Well sod you then, we won't do anything, then we won't be wrong!". On a similar vein, I heard a chap tell me that the H&S inspectors were doing the rounds, so he was going to spend the day sat in his truck (utility arb sector) so they couldn't find fault with his working practices! Is this what we really want or need for Building a Better Britain???

Sorry for the slight, yet intentional derail, Ill put my soapbox away now.

 

Employers and employees can opt out of the 37 hour a week scheme I know because I just agreed to it...

[Andy Collins]

But that's the difference, you've agreed to it, others don't, and they are not required to. Most jobs I've had have been long hours, coming to Arb was actually a shorter day as a rule, which is probably why I used to stay on and help fix kit ready for the next day.

Note I didn't state these chaps were "youngsters today" they were mid forties, and really seriously look for any possible avenue to avoid doing any real work for their wage, which is around £35k a year with many perks.

[BarneyH]

Very interesting thread.. I've been lucky, fairly new to the industry (just under two years) and have consistently worked for very good, honest and straight up guys - most of the time. When I have done work for people who have turned out to be cowboys (only once or twice) I've simply said that I'm not available any more as soon as it became apparent.

 

I try to be as pro as possible re: showing tickets at the start and delivering full invoices promptly, but you learn on the job what is right and what is not. I like the idea of asking to see your employers certs and insurance when you show yours, I've not thought to do so in the past but will in future. Also, I think agreeing payment terms before the job starts is essential, I would be worried if that wasn't discussed, and if I wasn't asked for proof of my tickets etc.

 

Like I say, good thread...

[Gnarlyoak]

And they set up again but didn't pay you?? I would have gone round and put one on him mate. Disgusting.

 

To be fair they guy who folded owing me the larger amount, had promised to make it up to me, based on any future work I do for him, but by then I'd had my accident which put me out of commsion for a few months. But he did pay for my PTS referesher at the end of November. So he may still be good for the rest of it in due course.

As for the other guy, he dropped a load of people in it, and I still consider now and again popping round in the small hours to say hello........

 

I know, just makes me laugh when people say they are "freelance" or a "subbie" and take the tax benefits of "self-employment" but not the draw backs

 

When I was a subbie, I fell and was off for 2 weeks, never even crossed my mind to try and claim.

 

I'm with you on that. I'm still not back at work following my accident, (though hope to be soon), 4 months having to get by on benefits is no fun, but I've never once considered trying to make a claim against the guy I was working for. At the end of the day I fully accept that it was my own stupid error that caused my fall, so personally and morally don't feel that I have any justification trying to milk his insurance company. Besides I think I put him through enough trauma forcing him to feel totally useless and helpless watching me fall 40ft out of the tree in the first place. He tells me it still gives him the odd sleepless night.

 

Of course hindsight is a wonderful thing and you never think its going to happen to you, but I do wish I'd had proper full personal accident cover. The policy I did have covered me for the relatively short hospital stay, but only really pays out if you lose the odd limb or two, or end up in a wheelchair or a wooden box. 3-4 months with your feet up convalescing at home you do in your own time and at your own expense!!

 

I really can't stand this "where there's blame there's a claim" compensation culture thats taken root in this country. Its a bloody disgrace that so few people seem to take responsibility for their own actions these days and instead seem to want to find some other third party to milk for their own personal gain. Again I was scammed myself last year.

 

Had a "tiny" bump in a traffic queue last year. Just a bumper kiss, which di'nt leave a mark let alone a dent in any bodywork. Exchanged details with the chap who seemed satisfied that no harm had been done and thought nothing else of it myself. Then 4 weeks letter get a letter from my insurance ask for details of my "accident" because the third party was claiming for personal injury. Up shot he was claiming thousands for whiplash injuries and time off work. My arse, the lying $%!&!

 

In the end my insurance company finally settled the claim for £500. So he gets £500 simply for lying about injuries that never happened, and I lose my NCD and will end up having to pay double for my van insurance this year. Now there's someone else on the list of people I'd like to visit in the small hours and leave him with a real backache he would'nt forget in a hurry.

 

All in all, I'm not sorry to see the end of 2012, but I'll still be feeling the consequences physically and financially for some time to come.

[Andy Collins]

Accident insurance can be backed up with sickness insurance to you know. I had to make a claim for an injury that I incurred some time ago, initially the accident policy paid out a lump and a bit, then the insurers advised me to claim for sickness time following that. This meant I had concurrent payments and was not out of pocket while I mended. People have frequently moaned about CICA and their sales approach, but I can honestly and openly say that when push comes to shove they do all that is asked of them, and more. If you are freelance, self-employed, you can not afford to risk not being covered. If you have to claim for an injury whilst working for someone, your insurers do all the running, not you. They are simply out to recoup their losses, there is absolutely nothing personal, you are not expected to chase your employer up. It can be an unpleasant affair, but you have to look after number 1 in this world.

[Gnarlyoak]

.... If you have to claim for an injury whilst working for someone, your insurers do all the running, not you. They are simply out to recoup their losses, there is absolutely nothing personal, you are not expected to chase your employer up. It can be an unpleasant affair, but you have to look after number 1 in this world.

 

Yeah I hear what your saying Andy. But the guy I was working for is a decent hardworking bloke same as most of us, I count him as a friend, and I'm his "go to" guy when he needs a climber. Certainly hope and expect to work for him again (could be as early as next wk as it happens, weather permitting) so would certainly have wanted to steer clear of any unpleasant tussle between insurance companies that might have soured a good working relationship.

 

Even if I did have proper insurance cover and was'nt on such good terms with an employer, I think I would still find it personally difficult to claim against a 3rd party if I knew that it was an error or mistake on my part that caused an accident leading to my own personal injury. Whereby the end result was only injury to myself and nothing else.

[Andy Collins]

I wholeheartedly agree with you, and I guess 99.9% of us are of the same mind. Which begs the question, why do employers pay all that out for insurance if we aren't going to claim off it?

The problem is, if you are insured, and make a claim, the insurance will go after the insurer of the person you worked for, whether we like it or not. I can think of at least one instance off the top of my head to support this. It is not a pleasant affair.

Loyalty is an admirable quality, but where should the lines be drawn? Lets assume you have an accident where there are repercussions several years down the road. Your health unexpectedly deteriorates, and you can no longer earn a living and support your family. It is found that the problem lies with the accident a few years back. With EL there to protect you, a retrospective claim is made and you get monies that are there for just this occasion. Without a claim, you lose your house, your kids go without, and life is generally miserable.

This is why we have insurances.

[Jesse]

I wholeheartedly agree with you, and I guess 99.9% of us are of the same mind. Which begs the question, why do employers pay all that out for insurance if we aren't going to claim off it?

The problem is, if you are insured, and make a claim, the insurance will go after the insurer of the person you worked for, whether we like it or not. I can think of at least one instance off the top of my head to support this. It is not a pleasant affair.

Loyalty is an admirable quality, but where should the lines be drawn? Lets assume you have an accident where there are repercussions several years down the road. Your health unexpectedly deteriorates, and you can no longer earn a living and support your family. It is found that the problem lies with the accident a few years back. With EL there to protect you, a retrospective claim is made and you get monies that are there for just this occasion. Without a claim, you lose your house, your kids go without, and life is generally miserable.

This is why we have insurances.

Andy you'v hit the nail, this country is going down the pan and the ever increasing hoops we have to jump through is why, I don't give two hoots who is qualified or insured I just do my very best to better my knowledge in the industry and cover my own back and the interests of my family , thats there house and my retirement, if you are not qualified, and some Arbs IMPLY they are or are and not insured , and some Arbs imply they are, you are leaving yourself and your family's inheritance to chance, Its just a great shame that there appears to be a large number of people in this industry who take that risk and wing it, cutting corners where ever they can and ill advising clients for profit . When the brown stuff hits the fan it can run down hill for years. Time scale can go on and on when there's a claim it can be a roller coasting landsliding bill for someone at the end.

[Gnarlyoak]

Cheers Andy, you make a good point, and you put it well. Totally get where you're coming from mate.

 

I know I'll learn from own personal experience and make sure I'm adequately covered from now on. Must confess though that whilst I would'nt have instigated any action myself, if it had been 'offered' I would have gladly accepted.

 

Apologies to OP, we seem to have totally derailed his thread. Sorry.