Beginners climbing guide, hints, tips and general climbing techniques

[DrewB]

id say you never remove friction, you just move it to another point. natural ctotch has friction at the crotch, a rope guide moves the friction to the friction hitch-hence the need for high heat resistant hitch cord if using a rope guide.

[Adam Bourne]

id say you never remove friction, you just move it to another point. natural ctotch has friction at the crotch, a rope guide moves the friction to the friction hitch-hence the need for high heat resistant hitch cord if using a rope guide.

 

I see what you both saying mate but when I posted that post it was in reply to someone's question on how to make things easier on his body, the post was describing how to remove friction from pulling down on the rope not where the friction displacement will end up!

[Dog Tag]

Great thread Adam. Have made contact with a fellow climber in my neck of the woods. Will post developments.

Ta

[teepeeat]

As a non climber with a future interest in rec climbing, wondering about the whole DRT/SRT debate. As an ex rock climber (going back to the 80's) SRT seems logical to me, but sense a split vote on here based on various other threads so would be interested to see something on this thread from the pros covering this subject.

 

PS another good thread to follow on from the rigging one Adam

[scotspine1]

I see what you both saying mate but when I posted that post it was in reply to someone's question on how to make things easier on his body, the post was describing how to remove friction from pulling down on the rope not where the friction displacement will end up!

 

My point was that by incorporating a ropeguide or cambium saver into the guy's system it will not always make it easier on his arms, yes for pulling down but it's harder to hold your weight static (one handed) as you take up the slack with the other hand if there is no friction (over the branch) there to help you.

 

If my rope was running over a branch then I would have a lot if friction! Compared to that of running my rope through a cambium saver/friction saver, if I added a pulley into that friction saver then I'm taking at least 50% of that friction away, now if I ran my rope through just a pulley for example a pulley saver/ART rope guide then I've take nearly over 90% of the friction away I had when it was over a branch? Would you not agree?

 

No, because there is still a friction hitch or device (lockjack, zigzag etc) in the DdRT system. With a pulley being used at the TIP nearly 100% of your weight is being held up with the force of friction in your hitch. When you have a rope over a branch (depending on the diameter of the branch) 50% of your weight is being held by the friction in your hitch, the other 50% is displaced into the branch union.

 

It's why Kevin Bingham came up with the Ropewrench - the RW allows for smoother control of the friction hitch because some of the friction in the hitch is displaced into the RW, the same applies to the friction created by a rope over a branch in a DdRT system.

 

[Adam Bourne]

My point was that by incorporating a ropeguide or cambium saver into the guy's system it will not always make it easier on his arms, yes for pulling down but it's harder to hold your weight static (one handed) as you take up the slack with the other hand if there is no friction (over the branch) there to help you.

 

 

 

No, because there is still a friction hitch or device (lockjack, zigzag etc) in the DdRT system. With a pulley being used at the TIP nearly 100% of your weight is being held up with the force of friction in your hitch. When you have a rope over a branch (depending on the diameter of the branch) 50% of your weight is being held by the friction in your hitch, the other 50% is displaced into the branch union.

 

It's why Kevin Bingham came up with the Ropewrench - the RW allows for smoother control of the friction hitch because some of the friction in the hitch is displaced into the RW, the same applies to the friction created by a rope over a branch in a DdRT system.

 

 

 

Im sorry but although I agree with what your saying, the fact still remains that where ever the friction ends up there is less friction on a rope running through a pulley than there is running over a branch/limb/crotch!

I know which one I would rather it be running through.

 

come on let's keep things simple and not get into all this technical jargon..... The threads to help out beginners not scare them into thinking there hitch is going to set alight now they've added all that friction to there hitches

[Adam Bourne]

As a non climber with a future interest in rec climbing, wondering about the whole DRT/SRT debate. As an ex rock climber (going back to the 80's) SRT seems logical to me, but sense a split vote on here based on various other threads so would be interested to see something on this thread from the pros covering this subject.

 

PS another good thread to follow on from the rigging one Adam

 

Thanks mate:thumbup1:

 

It's hard really to say there is a winner out the 2! In fact there isn't they both serve there purpose and both have advantages and disadvantages, Srt in rec climbs I would say had to have the most advantages as there really is not much you would need Ddrt for in a rec climb, where as work climbing some of the advances of Ddrt out way Srt, I'm hooked on Srt now and have only used Ddrt to descend out the tree when my TIP has been in the top and not based anchored. For me its better for others it's not and for a few it's a doorway open for them to discover.....

[Adam Bourne]

Great thread Adam. Have made contact with a fellow climber in my neck of the woods. Will post developments.

Ta

 

Great stuff mate and thanks:thumbup1:

[scotspine1]

Im sorry but although I agree with what your saying, the fact still remains that where ever the friction ends up there is less friction on a rope running through a pulley than there is running over a branch/limb/crotch!

I know which one I would rather it be running through.

 

 

Adam, the guy has problems with his arms, he uses a Blakes (probably 13mm on 13mm) you suggested he add a micro pulley in there below the blakes and run his climbing rope through a pulley.

 

Think about it, he's gonna be pulling down on that rope with his dodgy arms, ok, thats fine and yes it'll feel easier than having the rope running over a branch but think about what's gonna happen when he stops and has to hold the rope one handed while he tries desperately to advance the blakes (13mm on 13mm) with the micro pulley, that blakes will no doubt be holding pretty tight and is gonna need some serious work getting it fed up the line all the while the guy's arm that's holding him 6ft above where he initially left off is about to explode cause there's no friction over a branch to help him.

 

Peter/Grasshopper, I suggest daily chin ups/press ups/dips as the solution, no matter how you climb or what system you use, you need strong arms in this game.

[David Goss]

Adam, 50% of the friction is not removed from the system, it's displaced from the branch into the hitch which is not always a good thing.

 

On the Blakes with a micro pulley, it's a good idea to add one of those small accessory/keyring biners or something similar between your main krab and the micro pulley as it allows the pulley more freedom to turn to either side as you take up the slack and also when the micropulley is acting as a fair lead.

 

did that orange rope in pic 3 pass its loler?