Would THIS offend you?

[Jake Andrews]

Agreed, I'm in this trade for the coin it brings and if didn't jump to the beat of a clients drum there are others worse than I who will. I'll not get all 'diva' over best practices and whats good for the tree, I'd rather fill my pockets with lucre and have a satisfied client. Having said that I don't make it a policy to butcher and mangle trees in everyday work.

I think the tree in the original post is now...original! A living sculpture to be admired.

Ty

 

Whilst I agree that we must do what the client asks,i believe we should try to educate the clients before we butcher/do what they want.i will always give my professional opinion before agreeing to their 'spec'. I then throw the ball back into their court too see if they still want to go ahead with their described work.or if my amendment was enough too convince them otherwise.

 

Jake:thumbup1:

[JonnyVine]

Big on criticism and judgement, short on answers, what would you have done differently?

 

Big on criticism and judgement, short on answers, what would you have done differently?

 

Hi there

Firstly I would have made it clear to the client that trees get their food and energy from photosynthesis, this can only take place in the leaves and cortex of young growth, NOT from the roots as some ill informed folks believe.

Cut all this lot off (like the tree in question) and what is left can't feed itself so it goes into a lower state of order- the living parts become dysfunctional- an unfortunate situation for the tree (if one can still call it that) because it now needs more energy to defend itself against the pathogens that exist at this lower order and there is not enough food producing material to even susstain what is left ( remember, this tree WAS used to having a huge cannopy to supply glucose and carbohydrates to feed the massive structure and rooting system which in no longer there)

What now happens is that epicormic growth attempts to supply the desperately needed energy, but unhappily the biological makeup of epicormic sprouts do not posess the same ability as healthy shoots to make this energy!

To cap it all, what is left is a hideous eyesore, next summer it is going to look like a huge toilet brush ( or "bogbrush" if you come from Dobcross,Diggle, Delph, or Uppermill) With all those sprouts growing from everywhere.

Seccondly, I would tell the client that the mutilated (tree) he is now left with is going to need regular (costly) maintainence and monitoring over the few extra years it had been given.

Thirdly, if the client still wanted to go ahead, I would have given him the telephone number of a "tree surgeon" that was on his arse and desperate for coin.

Lets just suggest that this thing is going to exist for another say ten years, think how well established a nice young Lime or Oak would be in ten years if the correct thing was done and this tree was felled and replaced NOW!

 

Hope there are enough words to explain my view

Kind regards

Jonny

Edited December 13, 2012 by David Humphries
Please read the site rules on use of language, thanks.

[Drayton tree care]

Well at least it has still got a bit of shape. And as said before we don't know the circumstances or instructions from the customer

[Ty Korrigan]

I'm just not that 'precious' as like I wrote before, there are many other arbs who would do worse and yes, my love of money excells that of 'most' trees.

Can't feed a family on 'principles' alone.

Besides, the work done on many French street trees shows that it does work well with a regime of regular maintenance.

Ty

[fagus]

I thought Jonnys was an excellent reply.I also have experience abroad it does broaden the mind when you see regular maintenance in direct contrast to some UK tree and shrub dogma. However I consider some of the things that work abroad are not good here because we have such a different climate. They have different culture and more importantly prepared to fund annual pruning

I see fine pollarded Planes in Annecy France which are carefully pruned and monitored but that is a world of difference to what was being debated here. Those trees provide necessary managed shade in the summer with people playing Boule and promenading underneath.

As I newbie on this excellent site I was in danger of starting another debate on pollarding and topping which are should have guessed had been well aired before

[Rich Rule]

Hi there

Firstly I would have made it clear to the client that trees get their food and energy from photosynthesis, this can only take place in the leaves and cortex of young growth, NOT from the roots as some ill informed folks believe.

Cut all this lot off (like the tree in question) and what is left can't feed itself so it goes into a lower state of order- the living parts become dysfunctional- an unfortunate situation for the tree (if one can still call it that) because it now needs more energy to defend itself against the pathogens that exist at this lower order and there is not enough food producing material to even susstain what is left ( remember, this tree WAS used to having a huge cannopy to supply glucose and carbohydrates to feed the massive structure and rooting system which in no longer there)

What now happens is that epicormic growth attempts to supply the desperately needed energy, but unhappily the biological makeup of epicormic sprouts do not posess the same ability as healthy shoots to make this energy!

To cap it all, what is left is a hideous eyesore, next summer it is going to look like a huge toilet brush ( or "bogbrush" if you come from Dobcross,Diggle, Delph, or Uppermill) With all those sprouts growing from everywhere.

Seccondly, I would tell the client that the mutilated (tree) he is now left with is going to need regular (costly) maintainence and monitoring over the few extra years it had been given.

Thirdly, if the client still wanted to go ahead, I would have given him the telephone number of a "tree surgeon" that was on his arse and desperate for coin.

Lets just suggest that this thing is going to exist for another say ten years, think how well established a nice young Lime or Oak would be in ten years if the correct thing was done and this tree was felled and replaced NOW!

 

Hope there are enough words to explain my view

Kind regards

Jonny

 

Hey Jonny,

 

Have you actually read the thread...?

 

Pete/18 Stoner, has explained the whole process he and the client went through before they did the work.

 

The only difference is, 18 stoner didn't farm out the work to some other tree surgeon, who in your words was desperate.

 

As some one said, how do you feed yourself and family on principles alone?

 

Rich.

[Andy Collins]

It'd be lovely to work in an ideal world, where the money grows on trees, the suns shines all day and it only rains at night, the groundies are all highly skilled and work for the love of the job. Every tree is perfect, every client does as we would wish, and takes on board our every latest whim on what's best for them and their trees.

But it ain't going to happen, I feel Pete (18stoner) made the best of a bad lot, no it's not perfect, no it's not "Best Practise" and all that modern mumbo jumbo, what it is is dirty filthy smelly tree work that no one will ever approve of, a bit like cleaning out sewers or something, but it has to be done occasionally. Sometimes I wonder what planet some people come from, they'll moan that times are tough, times are tight, but they must have their "standards" or they'll not do the work. It's time some people got real.

[JonnyVine]

Hey Jonny,

 

Have you actually read the thread...?

 

Pete/18 Stoner, has explained the whole process he and the client went through before they did the work.

 

The only difference is, 18 stoner didn't farm out the work to some other tree surgeon, who in your words was desperate.

 

As some one said, how do you feed yourself and family on principles alone?

 

Rich.

 

Hi Rich

I did read the thread, my response was just my opinion offering a different outcome based on quite a number of years studying tree biology.

It is arboriculturalists that should have the knowledge to educate clients as to what should be done to a particular tree with potential problems, not the other way round?

 

I do not remember reading how 18 stoner advised the client on the potential problems I pointed out so there is a big difference in our posts.

 

Rich, I completely agree that we can not feed ourselves on principals, however, if everyone had the tree AND the clients interests properly ordered then no one would be mutilating trees in this way.

 

If this client had been advised differently, the tree surgeon would still have had the chance to use his chainsaw and chipper, he would have had a larger load of logs to punt on, and a sapling sale to boot, no?

 

Best Wishes

Jonny

[Stephen Blair]

i think you should give Pete more credit, if he was a hash bash cowboy, why would he start this thread? He is a very experienced Arborist who started this thread with the confidence that it would not effect his reputation or business.

Edited December 13, 2012 by Stephen Blair

[Le Sanglier]

Hi Rich

I did read the thread, my response was just my opinion offering a different outcome based on quite a number of years studying tree biology.

It is arboriculturalists that should have the knowledge to educate clients as to what should be done to a particular tree with potential problems, not the other way round?

 

I do not remember reading how 18 stoner advised the client on the potential problems I pointed out so there is a big difference in our posts.

 

Rich, I completely agree that we can not feed ourselves on principals, however, if everyone had the tree AND the clients interests properly ordered then no one would be mutilating trees in this way.

 

If this client had been advised differently, the tree surgeon would still have had the chance to use his chainsaw and chipper, he would have had a larger load of logs to punt on, and a sapling sale to boot, no?

 

Best Wishes

Jonny

 

Here we go! "educating clients" what a crock of ****

Why do some people always believe clients are clueless idiots and we are the sacred holders of some mystical knowledge.

The client was fully aware of all the options and chose this for their tree.