Humans breeding out of control

[martwizz]

Am intrigued, why salt?

 

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preserving meat and fish

 

Sugar will also have an extremely high value. Not only because sweet things will be absent from available food, but also for making jam and stuff.

[teepeeat]

There have been a lot of good points made - particularly thinking here of Andy Collins and Mycoman. On a philosophical or moral level nobody could really argue against them.

 

However, humans being humans, things have gone too far and a lot of people are taking the urine. Andy's case is what the welfare state is for in my view - somebody falls through the cracks due to circumstances and needs a hand, but then wants to take control back and fend for himself. It was not created to generate a dependant society - whether due to greedy oinks or well meaning but naive social workers.

 

However, again, the problem is beyond philosophy and morals or even choices because it is a question of finances now - the cupboard is bare, everything is being paid for on credit, there is no choice, unless everybody is willing to add another 5 or 10% on to their tax bill.

The whole system is unsustainable in its current form.

As stated elsewhere - the more you artificially control things the bigger the swing when something snaps.

 

I also think that there have been a few generations - mainly in Europe who have lived in this amazing, protective bubble of the welfare state while the rest of the world has just had to get on with self preservation and consequently European views are a bit rose tinted and naive.

 

The biggest problem is of course that everything is based on the modern world economic model which is based on perpetual growth and seems to ignore that we live in a finite world. It worked while relatively few supped from the fountain, but now that more and more are claiming their share, the cracks are well and truly exposed.

 

The welfare state experiment is sadly coming to an end me thinks due to internal excesses as well as the much bigger financial problems.

 

hey ho, anybody got a spare bunker - preferably with a nice big picture window - it going to be an interesting show - for the rest of my days anyway.

[Lee Winger]

As much as it is a case of over expanding population, it's the changing population demographic that most worries me.

 

Educated people wait until much later to have fewer children. Uneducated people breed sooner.

 

Biggest load of tosh I've read in my life, Educated people wait until they are older to have kids people have kids later in life because they live pathetic selfish lifestyles, I say ban IVF then we'll see how many people wait until they are late 30's early 40's to have kids, if you ask me there's something rather unnatural about a person especially a women having a first child when they should be getting close to becoming a grandparent and I think its especially unfair on the child

[Big J]

Biggest load of tosh I've read in my life, Educated people wait until they are older to have kids people have kids later in life because they live pathetic selfish lifestyles, I say ban IVF then we'll see how many people wait until they are late 30's early 40's to have kids, if you ask me there's something rather unnatural about a person especially a women having a first child when they should be getting close to becoming a grandparent and I think its especially unfair on the child

 

I think you are confusing selfishness with the procedure of attaining qualification for certain professions. Take my wife for example - she is an architect and it took her the best part of 10 years to qualify (fairly standard). So, aged 29, she was finally in a position of being fully qualified in a profession that only pays reasonably if you are prepared to work in places like Dubai building pointless skyscrapers. If you want to do worthwhile, environmentally friendly buildings, it is a different matter.

 

So fast forward a few years, to an age of 33. We're only just starting to get the financial position where having a baby is a tenable proposition. How would you propose that this situation is best avoided? Should women perhaps not embark on career choices that are detrimental to one's ability to reproduce? Should women simply stay at home and focus on being mothers, instead of carving out a career and identity for themselves?

 

An integral part of women's emancipation is the acceptance that women have the right to not only choose whether they want children, but also at what stage in their life they want them. I hope you are not suggesting that we should all be rushing to procreate at the earliest possible opportunity regardless of how suitable (or not) the prospective spouse is.

 

I can tell you now that I would make a far better parent at my present age (28) than I would have 10 years ago, and would hazard to suggest that in another 10 years my parenting skills would be better still.

 

I'm sorry Lee, but your remark is tremendously sexist, discriminatory and ill informed.

[difflock]

:thumbdown:Lee Winger:thumbdown:

:thumbup:Big J:thumbup:

though i do agree it would be nice to be a virlie young grandparent/greatgrandparent:lol:

However since we are not on benefits this is not possible

[Robert.Hosking11]

I figure if we all eat one person each, the whole problem would be solved overnight.

[Lee Winger]

:thumbdown:Lee Winger:thumbdown:

:thumbup:Big J:thumbup:

though i do agree it would be nice to be a virlie young grandparent/greatgrandparent:lol:

However since we are not on benefits this is not possible

 

Three quarters of the country are on a state benefit of one kind or another, hell a few years ago they even paid you to have kids in the form of a trust fund and the same in Australia except over there you got $5,000 hard cash none of it means tested

[Lee Winger]

 

I'm sorry Lee, but your remark is tremendously sexist, discriminatory and ill informed.

 

You're entitled to your opinion, but I know of and and have heard of countless women that massively regretted putting a career in front of having children. I'm a strong and firm believer in nature women want kids and not the first one at 35-40 years old.

 

Sadly we live in a cocked up society being a mother imo is one of the hardest and demanding careers that any women can undertake and any women that does a good job of it deserves and gets a huge amount of respect from me, unfortunately not all of society look at it like this Its rammed down women's throats these days that being a mother should play second fiddle to a career

[Big J]

I would never belittle the role of a mother, nor deny it's value in society, but I think that we would all agree that a woman has every right to choose her own path in life. At no point should they feel pressured to have children because of advancing age. Regarding IVF, I often think that those who choose to have fertility treatment are the best of parents as a child is something that they truly want and have considered. I would imagine that such considerations are rarely contemplated by Chantelle, aged 17.....

 

Additionally, is it surely not better for a parent to have a degree of life experience prior to having children? Parents have an enormous role in shaping the lives and minds of their kids, and I think it invaluable for those parents to have a wealth of experience and knowledge to draw upon. This is something that comes with education and life experience, two things that are very hard to achieve if your first child pops out before you are 20.

[Andy Collins]

As a younger parent in my time, I had and have no regrets. We had the youthful energy to put into our family. My wife's role was that of a homemaker/housewife or whatever you call it, my role was chief breadwinner and general dogsbody. Yes money could be tight, but I had time for my kids, we had time for our kids. When they fell ill at school, their mother was there to answer the phone and bring them home, and care for them. This modern parenting is all well and good, but the parents cannot afford the time off from important business meetings to care for their own child, and I know several where this applies. Latchkey society is no good for the wellbeing and upbringing of the child, nor does spending five minutes just before bedtime reading because that's all you can spare. If you want kids, at any age, you have make sacrifices, the wealth, the nights out, the nice cars and fancy holidays, after all there is actually a lot more wealth in spending time with your kids. I work for some really wealthy people, who shower their kids with everything, yet might see them for a couple of hours on a Sunday, I'd rather not have kids if that was my life.