Dealing with damage...

[Andrew Barrett]

Hi all,

 

I've had seven separate bits of damage in the last six weeks done by three different self-employed groundies. Two new shrubs trodden on, one new Wisteria chopped at the base (still got £11.99 price tag on!), one borrowed tarp cut with chainsaw, one corner broken off plastic table, hole torn in posh Brabantia washing line cover and lastly knackered jockey wheel! I've had enough!

 

What do people do when their employees or subbies cause damage? Do you pay for it yourself, or do you make them pay for it? So far, all I've done is not pay the extra I would have paid for longer days.

 

When I started with my uncle he would always pay the cost of damage done by employees. But I'm thinking that having an explicit agreement that they pay, say, half the cost might help focus the mind on being more careful. But on the other hand, it might discourage them from telling me - and I would hate the client being the one who finds out first...

[Rich2484]

That's hard. If they are self employed ask them for there ins details for liability if they have any so if any damage was done you cold state that you would look for ins claim. Should focus them up a bit.

 

It's ok it being plants but what if they break a machine and say nothing. You wouldn't know until you went to use it next.

 

Carelessness costs money.

 

Sort a contract out that if damage is done they get some of the bill. IMO I see nothing wrong with stating this.

[Wolfie]

I heard recently that someone i used to work with who has just gone freelance has left the company we worked for (after 10 years service) and had the cost of some lost climbing spikes deducted for his week-in-hand pay two years after the incident.

[Andy Collins]

It's tough, I think it's wrong to deduct from a wage by law. As a contractor you are making the profit from the work, it's your risk. Occasional damage is going to happen, carelessness is a human trait, wanton destruction is different, if any throws a saw or tools in temper and they get broken, there is no excuse for it. But bits and pieces damage I'd say you ride the cost. But make it clear that this damage is not acceptable to you, it could cost you the client and future work then they will be affected. If things don't improve, don't use them any more simples.

As for stopping the money for lost spikes 2year aftrer the event, maybe a case for tribunal these days?

As for claiming on a subbies insurance for such minor damage... No chance, it wouldn't even come to a fraction of the excess. Let's hope Rupe doesn't see this bit, it's his pet peeve

[Rich2484]

No but I would still take the details of there ins. Might make them think a bit more when trampling around flower beds.

 

Flowers are one thing but if they break a machine and don't say anything that's a lot of money and don't forget the time, if it's not noticed until you get on a site...

 

But then they are subbies so there is no obligation to use them again and it's there loss if they don't get the work from you.

[likeitorlumpit]

Be honest

Do you really need these guys working for you.

They sound a nightmare and won't improve unless they are fresh out of college.

It sounds harsh but that is a lot of damage.

I ask my fellas to always own up.

I pay for the damage as I profit from the work.

Generally theres no more than £100-200 a year= broken windscreens/windows from strimming. It usually ends up with one of us having a bad year then a good one.

Oh yes I forgot our climber- now he's into about £200 just for him in the past 6 months. Quick but a bit careless springs to mind. One day I'll shake it into him. Maybe he's having a bad year.

[Paul Smith]

That's hard. If they are self employed ask them for there ins details for liability if they have any so if any damage was done you cold state that you would look for ins claim. Should focus them up a bit.

 

It's ok it being plants but what if they break a machine and say nothing. You wouldn't know until you went to use it next.

 

Carelessness costs money.

 

Sort a contract out that if damage is done they get some of the bill. IMO I see nothing wrong with stating this.

 

If he's working for you he doesn't need insurance he uses yours. Weather he's on the books or not if your paying or not he is your employee.

[pault]

As a self employed climber/groundie its my reputation and work getting judged if things go wrong. For example, taking down a small syc the other day i missed a small peg on the main stem. Dropped it and the peg chipped a paving stone in the customers garden. Didnt notice at first until the boss pointed it out. I felt really bad and was fully prepared to pay for damages as it was my fault and no reflection on the boss and his company. In my honest opinion if something gets broken or damaged, own up to it. If it was a genuine accident people appreciate honesty and you are more likely to get work from them again.

[tuttle]

Employees dont not respect property.

 

but on a monday morning, ask them to sign an agreement to cover the weeks damages to all and sundry.

 

I bet they will freak out, and only the brave will sign and take responsabilty.

[Andy Collins]

Insead of the stick, why not try the carrot? Incentive bonuses work. No breakages, extra money on the weeks pay, breakages = no bonus until the costs recovered. Believe it or not, it will surprising how careful people can be when a few beer tokens suddenly appear. Make it clear that the entire team is responsible for the bonus payment, each will then make sure the other is more careful too. If it doesn't work, then they aren't the right blokes for you.