laying hawthorn

[brewx1]

Can anyone experienced in this field give me an idea of what the max diameter of trunk that can be worked with successfully with hawthorn? Also, have seen recommendations that it is not done this time of year, if that' s the case when would be good? Nesting could be an issue but are there other factors that make this time not good?

 

Oh, max diameter that someone experienced could comfortably work with. I've never tried it but would like to know what is possible. Any info much appreciated thanks.

[blazer]

Some start laying in September when the birds have finished nesting or in truth the 'twitcher police' can't drop you in it - ends March when the 'twitcher police' are out again.

 

Also the sap needs to be down a bit or the bark may come away from the stem to be laid.

 

normal laying is about 2-3 inch dia but I have layed 6inch dia - gets a bit heavy to control. Often I needed to cut low to get the bottom of the hedge low - not always possible.

 

Best to chat it over with a hedgelayer:thumbup1:

[slack ma girdle]

It is the wrong time of year to lay a hedge, the best time is when the leaves have dropped.

Hawthorn wood is not very elastic, anything over 5" is hard to lay without snapping off.

At this time of year their is bound to be something nesting. Most nesting restriction end at the end of July.

 

Sent from my Galaxy arse using tupping talk.

[openspaceman]

Also, have seen recommendations that it is not done this time of year, if that' s the case when would be good? Nesting could be an issue but are there other factors that make this time not good?

 

Leaving aside reckless disturbance of nesting birds; the reason hedge laying is a winter activity is because the stem must be dormant, in the summer the layer just under the bark is constantly dividing with new cells forming phloem and bark cambium, these cells have not properly formed vessels and bending them will cause the layer to rupture. That's how one can make a slider whistle from a piece of ash at this time of year, the wood can be made to slide inside the tube of bark.

 

Pick a 1" diameter shoot and bend it whole now, you will see the bark ripples on the compression side before the tension side snaps. The aim of the plash cut in winter is to form a laminate of a thin layer of wood and the outer bark with the intact cambium in the sandwich, this can then be bent through 60 degrees without buckling and the sap can then flow next spring in the thin sapwood layer and keep the stem alive plus the bark cambium can send food back to the root ans sustain it..

 

 

Oh, max diameter that someone experienced could comfortably work with. I've never tried it but would like to know what is possible. Any info much appreciated thanks.

 

I'm by no means experienced but the limit is in making the cut and still supporting the tree as it is laid over without tearing any fibres, plus leaving enough intact viable conducting tissue, 6" seems a reasonable maximum.

[Daniël Bos]

Not very clued up on the actual workings but I've found it starts to get too snappy for me when the first flush of leaves is out. The stems just get more brittle, you can still work them but it takes much more skill, care and practice.

 

This snappy fase is over by about the end of June. I have a friend who lays a section of hedge on the 21st of June every year, just to prove it can be done. Initial regrowth is slower but regrowth after 5 years is the same as winter-worked hedges.

 

As for size, I've laid 12" with good regrowth as the customer was adamant she wanted it laid (and rich enough to pay for the huge extra effort involved).

I had to rig them all down of the next stem along simply because of the weight involved. Fun but very tedious.

 

Not sure if I'm qualified to comment as I never studied not nuffink, but I've laid maybe 15 miles of hedge so far?

 

Daniel

Edited May 27, 2012 by Daniël Bos

[brewx1]

Thanks for the useful info guys, and 15 miles of hedging sounds reasonable qualification to me!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Leaving aside reckless disturbance of nesting birds; the reason hedge laying is a winter activity is because the stem must be dormant, in the summer the layer just under the bark is constantly dividing with new cells forming phloem and bark cambium, these cells have not properly formed vessels and bending them will cause the layer to rupture. That's how one can make a slider whistle from a piece of ash at this time of year, the wood can be made to slide inside the tube of bark.

 

Pick a 1" diameter shoot and bend it whole now, you will see the bark ripples on the compression side before the tension side snaps. The aim of the plash cut in winter is to form a laminate of a thin layer of wood and the outer bark with the intact cambium in the sandwich, this can then be bent through 60 degrees without buckling and the sap can then flow next spring in the thin sapwood layer and keep the stem alive plus the bark cambium can send food back to the root ans sustain it..

 

 

 

 

I'm by no means experienced but the limit is in making the cut and still supporting the tree as it is laid over without tearing any fibres, plus leaving enough intact viable conducting tissue, 6" seems a reasonable maximum.

 

That was educational, superb post:thumbup1:

[hedgesparrow]

just seen post and you can lay nearly any size but the bigger the hawthorn same with blackthorn it becomes brittle so needs to be done slow rule of thumb old cutter told me size of stem x3 and start cut so 6inch need to start top of cut 18inches. if you use a saw cut untill you get near to bottom you need to leave enought material but not to thick so it can send up the sap following year then use a side axe and cut slowley and twist with axe handle should just go over without splitting if its making cracking noises not cut through enough. or you can root lay. this is cutting through the roots at back and side and leaving a root in front so it can regrow. only just learning this so no expert. if you have not done much laying go on a course near to you and learn the basics cut a old hawthorn hedge is not a job for a beginner as i learnt when i laid 150 mtrs of 8inch blackthorn. o i wished i had a experienced cutter at the time. in at the deep end springs to mind

[phirow]

Please see the 1997 hedge-row regulations act

hedging was done any time of the year go to the CROW act about nesting birds!!!!!!!!!!!!! the word is INTENT to damag e nesting site

Edited December 28, 2012 by phirow

[openspaceman]

Please see the 1997 hedge-row regulations act

hedging was done any time of the year go to the CROW act about nesting birds!!!!!!!!!!!!! the word is INTENT to damag e nesting site

 

Hedging and hedge laying being separate activities?

 

You have misquoted CROW

 

"intentionally or recklessly disturb any wild bird listed on Schedule 1 while it is nest building, or at a nest containing eggs or young, or disturb the dependent young of such a bird. "