brewx1

Yes true, but probably saying that to cover their own backs more than anything. Not saying it's good practice, but I wouldn't scrap a pair of trousers because they had been in a dryer.

I always put them in the dryer, it's the only option to get them dry. Never cut my legs, so can't comment on any detrimental effect, sorry. I wouldn't worry about it.

Carving trees living trees, the right trees in the right place, I think would be fine. sure there would be arguments over which are the right trees and places, and arguments over whether its art or vandalism, same as graffiti art. Anyhow, came across this site the other day and thought there was some great stuff well worth a look Pooktre Tree Shapers ? Not particularly carving, so apologies if it's a bit of an aside or if it has been posted before, still some impressive art from trees though.

Great, we can put our prices down!....oh...erm..cough..sorry.

I would be very cautious about dropping a quote by that amount unless you are changing the job spec. It makes it look like you were trying it on the first time round.

And i bought one of those Ifors off you probably 4 or 5 years ago, the trailer gets well used, its probably over 12 years old now and there's no reason why it won't last for much much longer yet. Definitely quality built.

Precisely this.It's shameful that young folk feel they have to leave either the industry or the country to stand any chance of actually being able to support themselves. Best of luck chap.

I agree with much of this and certainly with your views on employment. If I was in the situation, I'd work at minimum wage sooner than claiming dole. How much effort I'd put into that work though would be another matter and depend on a few more factors. A small company with pleasant folk really maybe unable to pay more I could work for just as hard as in any other better paid job. I'd have to jump ship if a better opportunity came along, but that's the way it is. On the other hand if It was for a company where you get the feeling that minimum wage is being paid because that's all they need to pay, I really would not be putting much effort into it at all. I imagine most people would feel the same

If that was directed at me then you've missed a bit. I'm not looking for employment or to improve my pay (although more would be nice obviously) Actually, I could improve my earnings by paying less for labour, I could get it cheaper, if not even some for free, but I couldn't morally justify doing that. I own my own house, (apart, I suppose, from the portion of it still technically owned by the loveable Royal bank of Scotland). If i wanted to, I could stop working in arb tomorrow and be working doing something else the day after, still earning a living. I'm in a great situation. So please, get the point that it's not for my benefit, or because of my situation that I'm having a dig at low wages. And at 42 I still love climbing trees.

Absolutely spot on. Would you want there to be room for you? or is it best to leg it now?

How is this industry great for young lads??????? you can have a bit of spare cash as long as you are living at home with your folks? and to progress from there?

Thanks for the useful info guys, and 15 miles of hedging sounds reasonable qualification to me!

Can anyone experienced in this field give me an idea of what the max diameter of trunk that can be worked with successfully with hawthorn? Also, have seen recommendations that it is not done this time of year, if that' s the case when would be good? Nesting could be an issue but are there other factors that make this time not good? Oh, max diameter that someone experienced could comfortably work with. I've never tried it but would like to know what is possible. Any info much appreciated thanks.

All working fine this morning Ta

Czloweik, I guess with your name and passion for vodka you could be east european?. I've worked with east europeans and found them great, hardworking and willing to work for next to nothing. Unfortunately many were paid a pittance because employers knew they could get away with it, not because times were tough and that's all they were able to pay. That's sort of a similar situation to what I'm moaning on about here. I'm not complaining about my personal circumstances, I've got nothing to complain about. I just don't believe there is any justification for paying appalling wages. sure there are many excuses that you could come up with for it, but I think in a lot of cases that's all they are, excuses. Pay younger, inexperienced people less, or older inexperienced people for that matter, that's fair enough. All I'm really saying is, for whoever, it should be a fair days pay for a fair days work. It just seems mine and some others opinions of what that is differ. Hope the head is ok this morning:001_smile:

Yes I do realise how hard it is to employ somebody, I've done it, probably will again. Admittedly I don't currently, I use self employed subbies It just suits me now as I don't do trees full full time. It is still the vast proportion of what I do but I couldn't offer someone a full time job. Why is anybody surprised that their employees don't work as hard or care as much as they do, It's not their business. That's not to say there aren''t any great employees out there, there are, just few and far between. One thing is for sure though, the less you pay them the less likely it is you will find them and keep them, they will usually be people with enough about them to know when they're getting a rough deal and those very able to go and find something else. So there's a lot of employers moaning about the quality of staff but at the same time offering very meagre wages...hmmm I don' t share your opinion that 99% of bosses are fair and caring. There are a lot of naturally greedy people about unfortunately and if they think they can get away with paying very little they will, and come up with excuses like 'well it's the climate' and the more acceptance there is of that, the worse it will become. I'm sure I could pay less to people for a hard days work, but personally I wouldn't feel happy about it.

I do think £7.50 is a bad wage for a proper job that not just anyone can walk into off the street, i.e they've had to go through training and get qualified. nobody's got a big enough boot that will make me change that opinion

You haven't, I'm not looking for a job. I maybe think companies should be doing more , like better pay for employees, to benefit probably the industry as a whole in the long term. Yes supply and demand I know and the arguments a bit of a plate of spaghetti. And I don't like getting posts wiped

I'm not having a moan about my pay getting from tree work, I'm not employed and not looking to be, I do ok from it. Yep, got freedom of choice, and freedom of speech too.? If you want to put up and shut up that's up to you.

yep, I agree with you there, but these companies should expect to get slagged off, I pay a brash dragger more than that. I'm self emp in arb, I couldn't have someone working for me on that pay. Its wrong. I'm more concerned that voicing an opinion on it got my posts wiped and seemed to lock me out of arbtalk, although it appears that that may just be a coincidence

Yes, account is probably wrong wording, but arbtalk doesn't like my ip address it seems, hence I could only get here via a proxy

Funny how I can only get on via a proxy server. I may be wrong, If so, sorry.

Ok, guess as my account is blocked I upset some sensitive souls with comments made on the employment forum regarding what I consider derisory pay. EVERYBODY on here has their moan about tree surgeons being undervalued, but you obviously can’t comment on that if you’re going to upset the wrong people, To put things in perspective. As well as trees, I work part time in a theatre, unskilled stage hand stuff. I do it because I enjoy it. Theatre work is notoriously low paid but it’s better than what was been offered for qualified skilled, semi skilled (whatever) tree surgeons, who’ve probably spent their own money to get those qualifications. I’m 42, but the same pay scale applies to a 21 year old. David Riding, I fully understand employment costs, but that is no excuse, costs are the same for employers in any industry. As a 21 year old, yes I would have been happy with £18400, More than I was earning then, by around 800 quid . Unskilled labour, construction related…… but that was over twenty years ago!!!!!!! So I stand by my comments, If it upsets anyone then the best I can do is offer a hanky. Or am I wrong????????? Will this post get wiped too, before anyone can tell me?

They melt too easy. Got holes in both legs, straight through all layers and my skin within a couple of weeks. Wouldn't agree that they're particularly tough, got small nicks and tears all over very quickly too. Comfortable and lightweight, drying quickly. No leg pocket which would be useful as hard to use others with harness on. Probably wont buy another pair. Ok for money I suppose.