Urgent advice please !!!

[Nige156]

A landscaping firm I do alot of tree work for was asked by one oc their housing associations to remove a tree in Liverpool in a communal garden at the rear of residential flats as the tree and it's roots had lifted the adjoining property's garden wall and cracking was beginning in the side of the house wall. I attended the address, but upon inspection following the directions given I could find no such tree, and as no species etc was given I was scratching my head. There was a field maple in the rear garden (25" dbh), and I didn't think this would be the tree in question. After contacting landscape firm then thd housing local agent, I was told it was advised it was the maple. But by this time it was too late to start the job. The next morning we returned and set about removing the 118 nails in it's stem that someone had glued gems to the heads of??? As we were doing this I was Approached by a man claiming he had a letter to say the tree could only be "crown topped", trying to keep a straight face I asked if he could produce this letter as it seemed strange he should have any TPO paperwork when he doesn't have anything to do with this tree. He made several excuses then got aggressive, I politely told him to go away.

I rang the landscape firm and housing agent to inform them of the mans complaint, and was told thd housing agent would come out. She did, and directly told me in front of my groundsman and 3 other people that this was the tree to be felled to ground level. Problem sorted, tree dismantled, site cleared, home, shower, invoice for tree, beer :-)

Last week I was informed by a telephone call to the landscape firm that the tree was tpo'd and the council are perusing the case. Last night I received an email from landscapers saying the housing's solicitor wants a report of the job from me.

I know how stupid it sounds now but I presumed the housing and landscapers would have checked etc, I did ask the agent if it was tpo'd and was told no, but I didn't check with TO.

A - am I hanging myself if I send a report of the incident?

B - I probably dint want to hear this but where does the blame fall???

C - Likely outcome???

 

Thanks for any advice given

 

Nige ( crapping himself ) in Warrington

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

A landscaping firm I do alot of tree work for was asked by one oc their housing associations to remove a tree in Liverpool in a communal garden at the rear of residential flats as the tree and it's roots had lifted the adjoining property's garden wall and cracking was beginning in the side of the house wall. I attended the address, but upon inspection following the directions given I could find no such tree, and as no species etc was given I was scratching my head. There was a field maple in the rear garden (25" dbh), and I didn't think this would be the tree in question. After contacting landscape firm then thd housing local agent, I was told it was advised it was the maple. But by this time it was too late to start the job. The next morning we returned and set about removing the 118 nails in it's stem that someone had glued gems to the heads of??? As we were doing this I was Approached by a man claiming he had a letter to say the tree could only be "crown topped", trying to keep a straight face I asked if he could produce this letter as it seemed strange he should have any TPO paperwork when he doesn't have anything to do with this tree. He made several excuses then got aggressive, I politely told him to go away.

I rang the landscape firm and housing agent to inform them of the mans complaint, and was told thd housing agent would come out. She did, and directly told me in front of my groundsman and 3 other people that this was the tree to be felled to ground level. Problem sorted, tree dismantled, site cleared, home, shower, invoice for tree, beer :-)

Last week I was informed by a telephone call to the landscape firm that the tree was tpo'd and the council are perusing the case. Last night I received an email from landscapers saying the housing's solicitor wants a report of the job from me.

I know how stupid it sounds now but I presumed the housing and landscapers would have checked etc, I did ask the agent if it was tpo'd and was told no, but I didn't check with TO.

A - am I hanging myself if I send a report of the incident?

B - I probably dint want to hear this but where does the blame fall???

C - Likely outcome???

 

Thanks for any advice given

 

Nige ( crapping himself ) in Warrington

 

Hi Nige, under the circumsatnces it seems perfectly reasonable to me that the Housing solicitor wants a report, i.e. your professional opinion on the condition / state of the tree. Hence I think you are 'duty bound' to send a report, and why not, you've nothing to hide and, under the very unfortunate circumstances, you've been subject to bad luck IMO.

 

The blame is one thing, and clearly there is much scope here for a message to get diluted or lost all together, but unfortunately IF (and in many instances they don't, sending a letter of caution instead) the LPA choose to prosecute they usually aim it principally at the 'axe-wielder' and then seek to prosecute others involved as 'aiding and abetting', or similar. In this regard I would be wholly cooperative and remorseful to the LPA.

 

In terms of likley outcome, difficult to say, but LPAs don't usually prosecute unless there's a clear public benefit in so doing. I know this is open to interprpetaion but this, from what you've said, seems a genuine accident / misunderstanding, and I would hope the LPA would be reasonable, and they usually are.

 

In summary, co-operate and make sure you get the opportunity to explain directly to the LPA your side of the story (in parctice this may end up being an interview under caution, whihc is a bit daunting, but just be honest and open.)

 

Good luck and try not to worry too much as these things often run for months..!

Paul

[treequip]

Hi Nige, under the circumsatnces it seems perfectly reasonable to me that the Housing solicitor wants a report, i.e. your professional opinion on the condition / state of the tree

 

That’s not what he said though is it? He said a report on the job. The condition of the tree is moot since the HA had already decided it was to be removed and since cutting the tree without consent is an offence absolute it makes no odds what the tree looked like.

 

I think the HA’s legal team are looking for an out and the contractor may be it.

 

Any communication between the contractor and the client or his clients should be handled very carefully. It should be made clear at every opportunity that the HA were asked about statutory protection and that their staff clearly indicate the tree to be removed at the site meeting.

[Nige156]

Thanks Paul, as a former soldier I'm akin to the phrase " **** rolls down hill". What you said has set my mind more at ease. I have a good reputation in my local area and the thought of jepordising this makes my stomach turn.....not to mention the financial lashing! I will as advised be as helpful as I can, and more to the point honest about these events, and hope for an understanding LPA.... Sods law theres 5 TO's who's boundaries my work crosses and thd only one I don't personally know is this one. Too late for some ferre' rochet and a bottle of red in the post ????? Lol

[Nige156]

This was my main concern treequip...the fall guy and all that :-(

[redmoosefaction]

Grovel, justify why the tree came down..... and never trust anyone when it comes to the status of trees. It may take a little bit of time but always email for confirmation of status of a tree, then you have your paper trail.

 

We used to work for HA, and I tell you, this is probably an easy one to sort out!

 

Good luck, and please don't stress over this!

[button1803]

Grovel, justify why the tree came down..... and never trust anyone when it comes to the status of trees. It may take a little bit of time but always email for confirmation of status of a tree, then you have your paper trail.

 

We used to work for HA, and I tell you, this is probably an easy one to sort out!

 

Good luck, and please don't stress over this!

 

 

befor any job i wait for the paper work to come through from the T.O. and this is in my van on site should a problem come up.

[Nige156]

Thanks for the comments and advice fellas, iv had several conversations today with various parties involved and it seems so far that the emphasis is mainly on the HA for not submitting a request or even checking. If this is the case then i'll be one very lucky guy learning yet another harsh lesson. I could kick myself as with all private work I'm regimental with checking etc. I have let the HA know in no uncertain terms that from now on with every order number will be consent, or some paperwork to support the tree being outside TPO/CA restrictions.

Complacency is costly!!!

 

Still not entirely relaxed and suppose only time will tell the eventual outcome for myself and other concerned parties!!

[treequip]

I wouldn’t be overly worried if I were you, the HA’s legal team are looking for a way out, they will certainly consider you as a candidate for that but since you asked the HA’s staff about statutory protection and their officer indicated the tree, they are going to find it hard going to establish any culpability on your part.

 

The HA, as an organisation ought to be aware of legal constraints on the properties they control and it is highly unlikely that the LA will seek redress from you under these circumstances. The same would not be true if it were a “private punters” tree and you had neglected your due diligence.

 

Any duty of care issues lie with the HA and not you, you did everything you could to prevent this circumstance. It might be prudent to be sure the LA see it that way.

[Rob D]

Always check with the LA even if people cross themselves and hope to die... I almost came unstuck a couple of times taking others word for it and each time felt stupid that I'd left it so late to check for myself.