Christians on arbtalk?

[Treecreeper1961]

I do agree in principle. It's interesting how as the human mind evolved before scientific understanding came about, that we conjured religion to explain the unexplainable. Now the science goes a good way to explaining most of what we seek to know, and that we have the luxury of free time to consider aspects of life beyond simple survival, we've come full circle back to the desire for spirituality to give life meaning beyond mere existence.

 

Whatever, I'm going to bed for sex., the wife still wants to make babies.

[Big J]

Whatever, I'm going to bed for sex., the wife still wants to make babies.

 

Mine seems to have the beginnings of a viral chest infection - boo!

[scotspine1]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enzNmWHLGhY&feature=related]Fear is not reality - YouTube[/ame]

[skyhuck]

 

Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!

[Graeme]

Well done all! It's not often I can be ar&ed to read 20 pages of a thread to catch up!

I'd like to take a moment to qualify a couple of things from my post at the start of this and ask a couple of questions of some believers.

 

1. Although I don't believe a word of it [except perhaps that a fella going by the name of Jesus might have lived a while ago and became quite popular somehow], both my oldest children go to church schools, are full on believers, do Sunday school and love questioning why I don't believe.... But I have never discouraged them from believing.

 

2. I am open to be proved wrong [as I am in all things in life!], in the unlikely event that I do rock up at the pearly gates I will eat my words. But I don't let that potential occurence colour the way I live my life, I live my life as I do because making people's lives a tiny bit better makes me feel like I've earned my place in society and I do that for no one but myself.

 

Now, questions...

 

1. The bible is often quoted as being the word of god... I thought it was written by people who are alleged to have known Jesus, or known people who knew him, mostly some considerable time after his death, and then edited by some Romans....? There's the odd quote in there but over many years and many translations that seems a bit like chinese whispers to me...? Is that basically right or is there unquestionable evidence to prove otherwise?

 

2. Who claimed that Jesus had been sent here by his dad, god, to die for us...? Was it Jesus? And if so, why does no one believe anyone when they claim to be his reincarnation these days? Is it because back then with a more limited understanding of the world, if someone could get enough support behind them people were too under-developed to see past this? Or was he somehow far more convincing...? Was it the miracles that convinced thousands of people he was special? Or was it just great sleight of hand and the people at the front of the crowd bought it and it rippled out through everyone and became 'gospel'...?

 

I am utterley fascinated by religion. Not so much for it's social effects, these are well documented throughout history, but the individual events and places which combined to create the greatest story ever told I find spellbinding. I cannot see me ever becoming a believer but one thing I will fight anyone who says otherwise over, is that religion and belief structures have created the most colourful and fascinating cronicle of human development one could imagine.

 

One final observation, although unintentional I hope, I notice [and am guilty of it myself] that believers and non-believers both look upon each other with a degree of condescension, pity, amusement, superiority & perhaps overinflated sense of their own intellectual capacity, either for seeing beyond that which we can see and 'knowing' there is something else out there, or for knowing that we are the beginning and the end, are pretty insignificant and are more enlightened for not needing the crutch of a higher power.

 

It's a midlly amusing situation when you stand back and look at it, both sides think the other's a bit daft. But then when one side feels they're being villified for that stance, they become far more aggressive than their alleged enlightenment would suggest reasonable...

 

Curious creatures human beans, convinced of our own importance and that we know it all....

 

Hi Worcswuss

 

I don't think anyone has replied to this yet, so I'll have a go. Not claiming to be a theologian!

 

1. I think its fair to say that Christians believe the bible is god's word for us. It is made up of different books and its important to understand the origin and context of each of these. For example we are told the ten commandments were written on stone by God himself, then there were the prophets (humans who spoke from God), then there are the the gospels which are witness statements from those who knew jesus (lots of direct quotes) and then there are what are known as pastoral letters like those written by Paul which were to specific churches addressing specific (but remarkably familiar) issues.

 

The actual books included in what we now have as the bible are there as a result of agreement between scholars over the last couple of thousand years. Basic principles for inclusion as I understand it was agreement between multiple copies and compatibility with the rest of scripture. Its worth noting that people may disagree on interpretations of scripture. This is were theology comes in with regards to understanding the context - is it poetry, legal, narrative, a letter etc. Understanding who the recipient is and their culture is also important.

 

Jesus talked about his Holy Spirit who would also help us understand scripture.

 

So if you lived in a rainforest somewhere and had never seen a bible could you know God? I believe the answer is yes because creation itself proclaims God. I know lots of people will disagree with me - thats ok. For me being in the mountains, on the water in a canoe or kayak or in the woods is a spiritual experience.

 

2. Did Jesus claim to be the son of God? Answer to this one is yes. Its why he was killed. When Jesus was baptised by John the baptist the bible tells us a voice from heaven was heard to say"you are my son whom I love, with you I am well pleased". The old testament is full of prophesies for the coming of Jesus - thats one of the differences from the likes of David Ike. As for why people believed - I guess that is quite an individual response. What I do believe is that if God is real that he hears and responds to people talking to him (prayer).

 

This is a longer reply than I expected. I promise you I try not to look down on anyone.

 

Graeme

 

PS I don't think it is an accident that Jesus was a carpenter!

Edited February 29, 2012 by Graeme
ps

[easy-lift guy]

Graeme, nice reply. Concise, to the point!.

easy-lift guy

[WorcsWuss]

Thanks for taking the time Graeme! There are obviously tenets in there which I do not have the ability to get my head round and bring myself to believe but that's a great factual answer.

 

And it's nice to finally know the source of the expression 'well pleased'... as in 'I is well pleased innit'....

[Graeme]

[Pat Ferrett]

Guys got talent

 

David Garibaldi: Jesus Painting on Vimeo

[sussexlad]

this is a very hard topic to write about as its hard to get across what i mean on paper.

i was christened as a baby, go to church for weddings, funerals, and i intend to do both of the above in a church myself. but thats as far as my church attendance goes apart from christenings and remembrance day. i think religion is a hugely personal thing, i like the saying "the woods are my church" as this is where i feel i can do most of my thinking and be most content. i also wore a st christopher pendant on my dog tags during my time in afghanistan and took alot of comfort from it, and i had some very close calls. as i say its very personal for me, i dont attend church much and i hope it doesnt matter i find peace elsewhere.

 

hope that doesnt seem to muddled! just my feelings, i would never try to force them on anyone else.