council competing against us! disgusting!

[Amelanchier]

Also, if we are capable of having a sensible discussion, I wonder if anyone is aware of the machinations of one Eric Pickles MP our rotund Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government ?

 

I draw your attention to the opening salvo of the Localism Act 2011 [my emphasis in bold]...

 

"Local authority’s general power of competence.

 

(1)A local authority has power to do anything that individuals generally may do.

 

(2)Subsection (1) applies to things that an individual may do even though they are in nature, extent or otherwise—

(a)unlike anything the authority may do apart from subsection (1), or

(b)unlike anything that other public bodies may do.

 

(3)In this section “individual” means an individual with full capacity.

 

(4)Where subsection (1) confers power on the authority to do something, it confers power (subject to sections 2 to 4) to do it in any way whatever, including— .

(a)power to do it anywhere in the United Kingdom or elsewhere,

(b)power to do it for a commercial purpose or otherwise for a charge, or without charge, and

©power to do it for, or otherwise than for, the benefit of the authority, its area or persons resident or present in its area."

Edited February 24, 2012 by Amelanchier

[Mesterh]

those l/a that are chasing private works are thy still getting in subcontractors to do some of there work ,????

 

I would be interested in that too.

 

I find it hard to believe that there isn't enough tree work to keep the lads busy in the vast majority of LA'S.

 

Or are the men in charge thinking that they can put the management of their tree stock on hold while the lads get out there and earn a few quid.

 

I too dont want to see anyone made redudtant but I also dont want to see the private service sector getting more squeezed than it already is.

 

From what I know this isnt a new thing anyway, about 10+ years ago a client of ours said the TO was touting for work while checking a TPO app for our client.

 

No that is fairly low.

[Mark Bolam]

Well said Butler.

 

I know some of the lads down here in Kent on an LA funded team.

 

The gaffer quotes private jobs, and it's market rate at least, he doesn't buy jobs.

 

I can compete no problem.

 

Remember, the council lads pay tax as well!

[Tom D]

I am against this as a taxpayer, not a contractor.

 

There is a very good case to be made for there to be no blue collar workers in the employ of the state at all. I disagree that councils shouldn't be allowed to charge for services, especially planning applications, after all not everyone makes planning apps so why should they pay for them?

 

The only people employed by the LA should be white collar workers who's job is either in management or a position where impartiality is important such as a TO. other massive organisations manage to look after their grounds and infrastructure using outside contractors, there is no reason at all why LA's couldn't too. Look at every business park, retail park, supermarket, etc, they manage to cut the grass, maintain trees and shrubs, weed beds and borders, and fill potholes and spread salt in the winter. the same people who fulfil these contracts are ready and able to take over the running of municipal parks and roads etc. Some forward thinking LA's are already going down this route, and saving money as a result.... our money.

[Mesterh]

I am against this as a taxpayer, not a contractor.

 

There is a very good case to be made for there to be no blue collar workers in the employ of the state at all. I disagree that councils shouldn't be allowed to charge for services, especially planning applications, after all not everyone makes planning apps so why should they pay for them?

 

The only people employed by the LA should be white collar workers who's job is either in management or a position where impartiality is important such as a TO. other massive organisations manage to look after their grounds and infrastructure using outside contractors, there is no reason at all why LA's couldn't too. Look at every business park, retail park, supermarket, etc, they manage to cut the grass, maintain trees and shrubs, weed beds and borders, and fill potholes and spread salt in the winter. the same people who fulfil these contracts are ready and able to take over the running of municipal parks and roads etc. Some forward thinking LA's are already going down this route, and saving money as a result.... our money.

 

I know one that has and its not the answer to all the problems.

 

They area management firm so basically they have to screw down everyones rates to make it work.

 

The staff they 'have' to employ just get moved about the department or moved out if they dont conform. One day they are sweeping the street, the next they are pruning some trees another day surveying some sub contractors etc etc.

 

The local subbies will think thats its great as they will get some work, well gues what the management firm is only there for 5 years so they can mess you about long enough to wash their hands of you, and proably about 50 others in the process.

 

Btw I havent fallen foul to the above so its not like Im typing this being bitter I just know a few who have and know enough people in said PLC's to know how it works.Obviously some will do very well along the way but it seems in general an awful lot dont.

 

The best thing imo is to have trained LA people doing their job whatever it may be and get in subbies only when they have to, no need for any other drama.

[simonm]

its nice to see people are passionate about their livelyhood. i started this thread because i strongly believe that this should NOT be going on through any la. I find it extremely unfair that the "new competition" has the upper hand from the word go. because councils are such powerfull competetors i feel potential NEW customers would be drawn to them because they are all long established and no fly by nite firm. put it this way you get 2 flyers through your door advertising legit tree work 1 is from YOU a small firm most probably unknown to new customers the other is from the local la who EVERYBODY has heared of who the customer knows will have insurance qualifications tackle to do the job and the customer knows will not dissapear when theyve been paid. who would you ring?

Oh by the way that 20% you pay on every job u bust your nuts doin has just paid for your competitions advertising, equipment, wages, fuel etc!

Im not trying to start an all out war nor point fingers at council employees "e

ven thought they are mostly bone idle:lol:" this goes way above their heads its the pen pushers who are sat in their comphy office chair sweating about loosing their jobs who are doing anything they possibly can to keep that 50 grand merc sat on their drives even if it means crapping on US the little guys.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Amelanchier
swearing

[Pedroski]

its only the same as a co under cutting another co coz they have lower overheads, or in some cases none , those wi out insurance,yards etc theyll soon realise it costs them money & pull out of it ,

 

I disagree - it's not the same at all, as the LA can undercut AND have all the insurance, yards etc, so it doesn't cost them money.

[WorcsWuss]

I am against this as a taxpayer, not a contractor.

 

I disagree that councils shouldn't be allowed to charge for services, especially planning applications, after all not everyone makes planning apps so why should they pay for them?

.

 

You've misunderstood this one Tom . This is a charge on top of the legitimate planning fee.

Let's say you want to extend your house. Last year you phone up the planning department and say 'I want to put an extension on my house, it's X big, do I need planning permission?' The planning officer, who is paid to be a planning officer by each and every one of us already, says 'I'll call in when I'm in the area, tell you if you need it and what the application fee will be'.

You then make a planning application, pay a few hundred quid, everyone's happy.

 

This year, you phone the planning department and say 'I want to put an extension on my house, it's X big, do I need planning permission?' The planning officer who is paid to be a planning officer by each and every one of us aleady, says 'You need to download these forms off our website, submit the form and a full set of plans, pay the fee of £30, we will then process it and tell you whether it needs planning permission and what the fee will be. If we need to make a site visit that wil be extra'.

The you make your planning application and pay another fee. NOT everyone's happy!

 

And the most ironic thing is that I'm pretty sure that the additional work in processing all these initial applications for whether an application is needed probably costs more than the fee they charge anyway... which seems fairly typical of LA thinking.

Do a job. Then invent another job. Charge for it. But don't charge enough to actually cover the costs of the work involved.

 

I don't doubt for a second that this will be how they approach contracting, ie not really accounting for all their costs and so under selling their service [and ultimately undercutting anyone who runs their business well and DOES know their total running costs and baseline overheads], but one which morally they should not be offering / charging for anyway....

 

Surely if local councils are contracting, there should be a rebate through our council tax when they make some money out of it, just the same as shareholders get a dividend when a company does well...?

[Pedroski]

Another thing that pees me off about the council is some of the "consumer advice" they put on the council web site... like only use contractors who are registered with Checkatrade. Checkatrade is a commercial advertising thing that virtually any old Tom, Dick or Harry can pay to be in, so what right does the council have to turn customers against people who are not paying advertisers in Checkatrade? I pay £1500/year in council tax, and I expect the council to do right by me as much as anyone else, there are businesses who pay thousands in business rates to the council and the council should do right by them, yet they are in cahoots with Checkatrade to make things tough. Why should I be pressured into paying £600/year for an ad just to be acceptable to people who read the blurb on the council web site?

Edited February 24, 2012 by Pedroski

[TRADITIONAL LOGGERS]

A leaflet came here this evening from a Christian place that said is now using people who have been in prison and now released and will do gardens/tree work/rubbish removal at reduced rates to those from commercial firms.

 

Back to original can we go to a local council work depot and loan the machines there at reduced rates as someone had posted?