Was he right???

[fergusonforestry]

i think it all comes down to lack of respect to start with. if the lad had some, even if he had a wrong ticket he should have just got of the train of his own accord, showing respect to the ticket man and his fellow passengers.

the 'big guy' (i think the fact he is a big lad is really being used against him) just did what everyone else wanted to do. calling it assault is just silly, this is a result the cotton wool wrapped society we live in. whatever happened to citizens arrests? nobody wants to because they end up being charged with assault. IMO its all just blown out of proportion.

 

exactly sir.

[Will Ayers]

if you look up the any persons arrest law, it states that any person can attempt to stop someone else from comitting an offence by using reasonable force, you are allowed to do this if there is reason to believe that you can do so in a more timely manner than the police, and if you can do so without causing undue injury, so the only argument left is wether the guy used too much force... well... not in my eyes, they should have waited till the train was moving

[skyhuck]

Somebody who is not a police officer has no right to use force, reasonable or otherwise, in this situation. Force is only deemed as being reasonable when used in proportion to the threat. What was the threat here? That he would sit there until the Police nicked him? The fare dodger was just that; an irritating, cocky little gob-shite yes, but not a physical threat.

 

So why are bouncers not all arrested??????????????

[felixthelogchopper]

i think it all comes down to lack of respect to start with. if the lad had some, even if he had a wrong ticket he should have just got of the train of his own accord, showing respect to the ticket man and his fellow passengers.

the 'big guy' (i think the fact he is a big lad is really being used against him) just did what everyone else wanted to do. calling it assault is just silly, this is a result the cotton wool wrapped society we live in. whatever happened to citizens arrests? nobody wants to because they end up being charged with assault. IMO its all just blown out of proportion.

 

I only call him 'the big guy' for clarity. I agree that the fare-dodger should have shown more respect but as we unfortunately all know, that is in short supply these days.The assault definition comes from Offences against the Person Act (1861); strictly speaking, I should have called it battery, an unauthorised laying on of hands, but that expression leads to more confusion.

Edited December 13, 2011 by felixthelogchopper

[felixthelogchopper]

So why are bouncers not all arrested??????????????

 

Because they act to eject people from Licensed Premises and are regulated. They are expected to use measured force in response to a physical threat. If they use excessive force, they are arrested. 4 doormen in Southend on Sea are currently awaiting trial for murder after the death of a clubber found outside a bar there.

[fergusonforestry]

I think if the youngen was bigger he would have stepped up and asked him to get off instead of just grabbing him. He should of used his extra size to intimadate him and tell him to get off before he removed him. I probably would of felt like dragging him off but I would never just drag someone past somebody elses children like that because if that youngen had panicked because of being grabbed from behind and lashed out and hurt one of those kids the fireman wouldnt feel such a hero then. If it had gone that way and a child was injured seriously in that situation this would be a totally different thread. I think violence should only be used in self defense and if I thought that youngen really needed a shake I would of thought the fat lad should of waited until he got off and give him it then not infront of innocent children putting them in danger.

 

dont think he was making any attempt to ''be a hero'' just fed up with that foul mouthed sod with a bad attitude if he's ever rescuing your nearest and dearest go tell him he did wrong throwing some gobby wee sod off a train, the rest of us have to pay so should he like others have said if it was a genuine case of wrong ticket or whatever all he had to do was explain not go mouthing of like he did holding up everything and abusing the staff lets not forget it is verbal abuse a serious offence in itself!

[felixthelogchopper]

if you look up the any persons arrest law, it states that any person can attempt to stop someone else from comitting an offence by using reasonable force, you are allowed to do this if there is reason to believe that you can do so in a more timely manner than the police, and if you can do so without causing undue injury, so the only argument left is wether the guy used too much force... well... not in my eyes, they should have waited till the train was moving

 

The offence had already been committed, and so prevention was impossible.

[skyhuck]

The offence had already been committed, and so prevention was impossible.

 

No, if the train continues so will the offence.

[felixthelogchopper]

No, if the train continues so will the offence.

 

It will continue, but has already occurred from the moment he stepped on the train.

[Lorry thompson]

agree on both sides mate but reg the fire rescue hes trained to do that in a safe manner or as safe as possible not putting others in danger. I wouldnt dream of dragging a little parasite like him past some young children incase they got injured thats all that worried me. If he wanted to keep everyone happy and safe wait till he got off the train and drag him to the police and maybe give him a couple rib ticklers on the way:001_smile: that would get a big thumbs up from me anyway:thumbup: