Keeping hold of the lowering rope

[Grandad]

except they really arent valid. Anyone who has used a proper lowering device wouldn't want to go back to wrapping round trunks, neither the groundy or the climber. Its slow, inefficent and more laborious.

As for the problems...well I dont really think they are problems. Most of the things brought up in discussion are by inexperienced users who havent been shown to use the devices properly.

 

Can't agree about the "slow , inefficient and laborious" Steve. How can having to rig pulleys and belays not take up valuable time especially if you have to move some or all of it again to do the next branch? To me it seems complication for the sake of complication.

[Steve Bullman]

Can't agree about the "slow , inefficient and laborious" Steve. How can having to rig pulleys and belays not take up valuable time especially if you have to move some or all of it again to do the next branch? To me it seems complication for the sake of complication.

 

Some people complicate it more than necessary Grandad

 

IMO a lot of the stuff you see posted, whilst impressive with regards physics, it quite unnecessary and i'd rarely use it myself. Block at the bottom of the tree(2 minute job), pulley at the main anchor point (30 second job). more than adequate for 90% of trees

[treequip]

Please don't be offended but I really can't believe the problems you guys have these days. It seems to me that all these gadgets make as many problems as they solve. An awful lot of the posts on this forum are about how to rig this gadget or that pulley. Then the problems that arise around climbing gadgets such as lockjack or spiderjack and the merits and demerits of each. How to retrieve the lowering rope? As many have already said: get groundie to tie it on your climbing rope and pull it up again; what could be more simple?

None of these "problems" used to arise, none of these gadgets existed, life was simple. If we wanted to lower a branch we would rig it appropriately having chosen a suitable anchor point and just lower it. If it was very heavy we would pass the lowering rope around the trunk as many times as was thought necessary. never had a problem, never got launched through the air. I think a lot of these gadgets are like the Vincent motorcycle: a collection of ingenious solutions to non existent problems. I am yet to be convinced of the true worth of any of the gadgets thought of as indispensable today. We had it easier and cheaper.

Again: no offense intended to any individual, just my view...

 

Over 20 years ago I started on the old school 3 knot system on three strand. I am what they call an early adopter and have followed the progression of climbing and lowering techniques. Some I use regularly, some occasionally and some I have disregarded.

 

There are some things you are overlooking, you see questions asked on this (and other) forum(s) and project that onto the industry as a whole.

 

This (and other forums) is where people come to ask questions. In that respect finding questions here is like discovering that water is wet

 

Modern techniques and equipment definitely make things easier and quicker, to those of us that have developed with them they are second nature, others may have to ask questions.

 

Have you tried using any of the hardware and techniques that you aren’t convinced of?

[Grandad]

Some people complicate it more than necessary Grandad

 

IMO a lot of the stuff you see posted, whilst impressive with regards physics, it quite unnecessary and i'd rarely use it myself. Block at the bottom of the tree(2 minute job), pulley at the main anchor point (30 second job). more than adequate for 90% of trees

 

Ok, two pulleys, nice and smooth lower, I can see that but how do you belay if the branch is a heavy one? And it's even quicker to just hang a rope through a fork than rig a pulley.

[Le Sanglier]

Whilst not wishing to speak for Grandad I will assume that what he might be alluding to is the practice of using pulleys for rigging in the tree which reduce friction, then lowering devices on the ground which increase friction, whereas a half hitch in the tree and a wrap or the use of a nearby post, towbar or basic device would work as well (and as quickly) as something complex and pricey.That is my invalid opinion.

[skyhuck]

Please don't be offended but I really can't believe the problems you guys have these days. It seems to me that all these gadgets make as many problems as they solve. An awful lot of the posts on this forum are about how to rig this gadget or that pulley. Then the problems that arise around climbing gadgets such as lockjack or spiderjack and the merits and demerits of each. How to retrieve the lowering rope? As many have already said: get groundie to tie it on your climbing rope and pull it up again; what could be more simple?

.

 

Simple yes, but fairly time consuming.

 

Smooth and efficient is what we are all aiming for

[Steve Bullman]

Whilst not wishing to speak for Grandad I will assume that what he might be alluding to is the practice of using pulleys for rigging in the tree which reduce friction, then lowering devices on the ground which increase friction, whereas a half hitch in the tree and a wrap or the use of a nearby post, towbar or basic device would work as well (and as quickly) as something complex and pricey.That is my invalid opinion.

its not valid because it wont work as well....and certainly wouldnt be as quick

 

Have you tried these newer techniques?

Edited December 4, 2011 by Steve Bullman

[Steve Bullman]

Ok, two pulleys, nice and smooth lower, I can see that but how do you belay if the branch is a heavy one? And it's even quicker to just hang a rope through a fork than rig a pulley.

 

30 seconds to rig a pulley one time....is that really going to mess up the day? and to belay a heavy branch you take an extra wrap as needed round the lowering device. its so simple

[skyhuck]

30 seconds to rig a pulley one time....is that really going to mess up the day? and to belay a heavy branch you take an extra wrap as needed round the lowering device. its so simple

 

And safe!!!

[treequip]

Ok, two pulleys, nice and smooth lower, I can see that but how do you belay if the branch is a heavy one? And it's even quicker to just hang a rope through a fork than rig a pulley.

 

Rigging a pulley takes about 30 seconds, you can also rig the pulley to take advantage of other parts of the tree which allows you to use a rigging point that would otherwise be too weak, (takes up to a couple of minutes to rig)

 

Modern ropes are way stronger than days of yore, they cost more and work best with pulleys and a lowering device.