should he stay or should he go.....(Clarkson)

[delabodge]

& whats the problem ? it was tungue in cheek comment in total jest ,

Ahhhhhhhhh,man after mi own heart

 

well said that man,,,,,,,,

[TimberCutterDartmoor]

Well, on the subject of Clarkson...

 

This video - make sure you watch it until the end - sums up more than just the car. It's prophetic.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgZlpRdQlRI]Top Gear Season 13 Ending - Aston Martin V12 Vantage HD - YouTube[/ame]

[MattyF]

You don't pay a percentage of the years that you work, you pay a percentage of your salary, i.e.. £30K salary, annual contribution of £900, so forgetting about interest and inflation you have paid in £40500 over your working life, you then live for another 20 years on say90% of final salary which is £27000 a year. That 27k over 20 years of retirement adds up to £540000!! so having paid in less than 50K you withdraw over half a million!!

 

And who makes up the shortfall????

 

 

Me.

Could not agree more ... It makes no sense to continue this complete madness , I know people now who have taken retirement ten years early out of civil service ... Massive pay off, Cushty pension it's an outrage that we- us pay for this.... and as I said earlier if you don't like your job then f off and join the rest if us when it comes to your pensions...

[agg221]

What anyone who works in the public sector needs to remember is this.

The private sector doesn't need you half us much as you need it sadly. If the public sector was to disappear up it's own backside tomorrow, within a few weeks private companies would be popping up all over the place doing their jobs but better and cheaper.

 

What like the ones who leave the elderly to die from dehydration or malnutrition on a hospital ward??????

 

The second comment illustrates the error in the assumption made with the first. The nursing profession is a very good example of what things would be like if private companies ran it. It has now been made sufficiently unattractive as a profession that in high cost areas, such as the South East, it is impossible to attract or retain permanent staff in sufficient numbers. So, the shortfall is made up by (privately supplied) nursing staff, who now in some cases make up 80% of ward staff. They're temporary, they don't care, and they are better paid.

 

How do I know this? Because my Mum spent 6months in hospital in Dartford in 2008 and during her stay the (private, agency) nurses managed to give her medicine which her notes clearly stated she was allergic to, so she nearly died (again), and to send her home with deep vein thrombosis, resulting in a her being rushed to hospital again, having nearly died for the third time. Think I'm exaggerating? You'll be able to get the court case notes sometime around next April (which is why I won't go into any further details).

 

Why can't teachers etc [who god knows have incredible packages in reality] stop complaining about how hard done by they are and just plaster on a smile and put up with it?

 

Did you read my analysis of how 'incredible' the teachers package really is? Do you believe a salary based on a taxed £17.5k to be 'incredible' (in a good sense or a bad sense), or do you not believe me? Or is there some other 'benefit' that you think teachers have?

 

Alec

[agg221]

Oh and Clarkson, very funny when not taken out of context, and the Unions were particularly stupid in their reaction. Only problem with Clarkson is that he's a friend of David Cameron apparently, which shows very poor taste!

 

Alec

[treequip]

Oh and Clarkson, very funny when not taken out of context, and the Unions were particularly stupid in their reaction. Only problem with Clarkson is that he's a friend of David Cameron apparently, which shows very poor taste!

 

Alec

 

I didn’t know that, consorting with a politician has taken him down in my estimation

[WorcsWuss]

Alec, to respond to the points you made.

1. When my wife was getting diagnosed with cancer, we paid to have her assessed privately. Ironically it was the same consultant who eventually treated her under the NHS, but working much quicker out of a private hospital. Yes, some NHS hospitals are bringing in cheap foreign staff, but you have to ask yourself whether this is because the profession is poorly paid or whether trusts are wasting money elsewhere instead of spending it on nurses and equipment.

 

2. My sister in law is a NQT, several very close friends are teachers & senior management [one is helping me this Sunday actually!] and my wife was a governor at our childrens school so I know that £17.5k is not a common salary for teachers, nor do they sit on it for long. Although for 39 weeks work I reckon it's pretty good yes....! I will accept that TA's are very poorly paid though for some of the crap they have to deal with, but most are not qualified nor strong enough to lead a class so I guess that's OK. [My wife works with special needs kids and was a TA as a local secondary school]

 

3. I have worked closely with schools and local authorities as part of my work, including taking classes as an industry contact. I have a close working relationship with senior management at quite a few schools [private and state] and base my opinions only on what I know for a fact. Teachers have nothing to complain about and really ought to bear that in mind....

[skyhuck]

The second comment illustrates the error in the assumption made with the first. The nursing profession is a very good example of what things would be like if private companies ran it. It has now been made sufficiently unattractive as a profession that in high cost areas, such as the South East, it is impossible to attract or retain permanent staff in sufficient numbers. So, the shortfall is made up by (privately supplied) nursing staff, who now in some cases make up 80% of ward staff. They're temporary, they don't care, and they are better paid.

 

 

Ah so all the problem in the NHS are the agency staff and all the good things are the PS workers!!!! how stupid of me not to realise

[skyhuck]

 

 

 

Did you read my analysis of how 'incredible' the teachers package really is? Do you believe a salary based on a taxed £17.5k to be 'incredible' (in a good sense or a bad sense), or do you not believe me? Or is there some other 'benefit' that you think teachers have?

 

Alec

 

That is nonsense!!!!!

[agg221]

1. With regard to nurses, agency staff cost more than permanent staff, both in salary and agency fees, so no hospital with an eye to costs (as they all do in these days of hospital managers) is going to voluntarily take on agency staff rather than permanent staff.

 

If you paid to have a private assessment, I take it you are not living on the bread line?

 

2. For reference, my wife is a teacher, my mother was a teacher, as was my aunt. I therefore have close connection with the figures.

 

£17.5k is not the overall salary, it's the gross base you are left with on your starting salary after servicing your obligatory debt, and deducting your pension contribution (unlike other bits of the public sector, they pay for it!). Yes, it goes up on a service basis. It tops out at £30k gross, which after pension deduction and servicing your debt leaves you with £22k gross before tax and NI.

 

You also need to take into account the years of not earning while getting qualified.

 

I'm not trying to portray teachers as having a marginal, poverty driven existence, merely to correct some of the portrayals of gold-plated lifestyles at the taxpayer's expense. Yes it is taxpayer's money, but the alternative is to either require everyone to educate their children privately, or down-rate the standard of teachers, which is fine for some ultimate professions, but a little tricky if we still want to give children an education able to produce engineers, scientists, doctors or any other highly skilled professionals with the ability to contribute to our national ability to do anything worthwhile on either a social or economic level.

 

39 weeks is another simplification. Try calculating it as hours instead, taking into account break, lunchtime and after school duties (do you get a lunch break? my wife doesn't 3 days a week) planning time and marking time, not just time spent in front of a class. What are you doing at the moment? My wife is currently marking, which is normal for this hour in term time.

 

3. In 2007, teachers recognised the need for financial change with regard to their pension provisions. They increased their contributions and pension age, in a deal which was agreed with their employers to be sufficient to meet the ongoing investment requirement in their pension fund. Their pension fund has (illegally) not been revalued since, and the contribution they're making may well be sufficient that, when invested wisely, as it has been over the past 40yrs, it will grow to meet the needs of the scheme's members. As such, increasing the contribution they make achieves only one end - allowing the government to pay more into the schemes of other public sector workers, most notably civil servants, who currently receive their pension directly from the state. I'd say that would be a bit annoying, wouldn't you?

 

Alec

 

Alec