sycamore roots causing subsidence

[robertsonstreecare]

i recently visited a client who explained to me that they have been experiencing what they believe to be root problems causing damage to their house. the cause is potentially a large sycamore tree which stands approximately 5 metres from the house. the question she asked me is could i prove that the roots were the cause of the problem? the tree is protected and the council require proof of root damage before they will consider removing the tree. i advised her that without any excavation work all i could say was that due to the size (height 50 feet, crown spread 40 feet) and the proximity to the building that it was very possible the tree could be causing the problem but i am not sure how this could be proved?? any advice would be welcome!!

 

also may be significant the house actually stands about 10 metres from the tree but they added a conservatory about 5 years ago which is now 5 metres from the butt. the roots at the butt are also raised in a mound, but not protruding through the grass.

[Rick2517]

Really!! Cut through tree, tree falls over (gravity again) cut into logs, dump branches in layby.

Simples!!

Its people like you that give tree surgeons a bad name

 

OMG this dude has just declared war on the intire arb industry hahaha I cant wait for this thread to pan out!!

[robertsonstreecare]

the house is 18 years old, not the most likely to have subsidence problems i wouldnt think, and im not sure about the soil type im afraid! i will be going back out to see them shortly i will have another look!

[Treecreeper1961]

Check out the advice and guidance on the National House Building Council web site.

[Pete Tattam]

I thought this forum was to seek advice and politely put forward our opinions. For a while this thread has become an opportunity to slag each other off. Now I am new to this site and don't want to appear cocky but please gents keep it friendly.

[Mesterh]

Usually the insurance will appoint a structural engineer to carry out test to see if it could be the tree.

 

They monitor the movement over a period of time.

[slack ma girdle]

the house is 18 years old, not the most likely to have subsidence problems i wouldnt think, and im not sure about the soil type im afraid! i will be going back out to see them shortly i will have another look!

 

Getting back on track ladies.

Rule of thumb: Is the house on clay soil, most but not all problems are caused by clay soils srinking and expanding. Trees near by will increase this because of there uptake of water. The foundations from most modern houses are deep and solid enough not to effected by tree roots. The tips of tree rrots a fragile things. Therefore are not strong enough to push through soild foundations. However with older houses (80 years plus) the foundations tend to be not too solid and therefore have gaps which can allow root entry. Once roots gain entry they can excert forces up to 5 tons.

Therefore if the house is modern and not on clay soils then there is an unlikely chance theat the tree is causing subsidence.

However i am not a qualified engineer, if in doubt seek out an expert.

[garth mc garth]

Getting back on track ladies.

Rule of thumb: Is the house on clay soil, most but not all problems are caused by clay soils srinking and expanding. Trees near by will increase this because of there uptake of water. The foundations from most modern houses are deep and solid enough not to effected by tree roots. The tips of tree rrots a fragile things. Therefore are not strong enough to push through soild foundations. However with older houses (80 years plus) the foundations tend to be not too solid and therefore have gaps which can allow root entry. Once roots gain entry they can excert forces up to 5 tons.

Therefore if the house is modern and not on clay soils then there is an unlikely chance theat the tree is causing subsidence.

However i am not a qualified engineer, if in doubt seek out an expert.

 

Is this the case with other species of trees? i have just looked at a eucalyptus appox 30inch diameter 45ft tall and approx 7 feet from the house. No current evidence of substancial structural damage apart from drains and pathway but needs to be removed due to future building work. Ground conditions are loamy soil ontop of underlying clay. Would removing the tree in stages have any less effect on shrinkage of clay around the footings or could it be done in 1 hit without any ill effects?

[treequip]

they added a conservatory about 5 years ago which is now 5 metres from the butt.

 

I will give short odds that the damage is between the original building and the addition.

[Steve Bullman]

a few people in this thread could do with reading this before they get themselves banned.

 

thanks

[MATTMOSS]

Is this the case with other species of trees? i have just looked at a eucalyptus appox 30inch diameter 45ft tall and approx 7 feet from the house. No current evidence of substancial structural damage apart from drains and pathway but needs to be removed due to future building work. Ground conditions are loamy soil ontop of underlying clay. Would removing the tree in stages have any less effect on shrinkage of clay around the footings or could it be done in 1 hit without any ill effects?

 

 

I agree with slack ma girdle on this, tree roots shouldnt affect new houses foundations built to NHBC standards.

Trees can damage structures in three ways, falling over or on things. direct pressure-exerting physical force as they grow because they are too close to something or indirect pressure- absorbing water from clay shrinkable soils =shrinkage or stopping absorbing water from shrinkable clay soils and the ground rehydrating = Ground Heave.

Other factors do come into it like the water demand of the tree but from what you say I would be thinking whether or not the tree is on a clay shrinkable soil would be the first point of call

And to try and answer your question, if the ground is going to heave after the removal of the tree i dont think it will stop the enevitable only prolong the process if you do it in stages. But as Slack says if in dout seek expert advice!