throwing a big oak top over 15'

[Pete Mctree]

I'm now older & dumber for watching that. No thanks, just a bit of my life I want back.

[combined tree services]

its great to see that something like that cn be done but in all fairnes i dont see that it is something that i will ever considder using

[arbmark]

surely the pull line went slack after a few degrees. its a very nice neat little jump but how does the line help? was it tensioned near the butt? awesome belly flop

[Mesterh]

Looks like it worked as planned.

 

Now what you could of done is got a line just above the gob got some tension in it then just as it was about to break the hinge give it loads more, woulda jumped and swung the butt round towards the chipper.

 

Done that plenty of times but on smaller stuff by just pushing it sideways by hand, works well and surprising how much you can push the timber out, good for dodging power lines.

[dadio]

Looks like it worked as planned.

 

Now what you could of done is got a line just above the gob got some tension in it then just as it was about to break the hinge give it loads more, woulda jumped and swung the butt round towards the chipper.

 

Done that plenty of times but on smaller stuff by just pushing it sideways by hand, works well and surprising how much you can push the timber out, good for dodging power lines.

 

Now there is an intelligent comment!!, which seem to be all too rare in response to my videos.. Yes that is great technique, taught to me by my climbing mentor, John Grier... I have not used it much, but saw him use it many times.. The bigger a piece is, the more force is needed to get it into motion. So anything big is going need more pull than you can get by hand.

 

I have thought about using this technique... shall we call it a "side swing throw" by loading up a dynamic pull line, as you describe, but have yet to find the need.. Probably better to give it a try when NOT NEEDED, just to see how much force gets what kind of reaction.. I'll try to get it on tape..

[combined tree services]

Now there is an intelligent comment!!, which seem to be all too rare in response to my videos.. Yes that is great technique, taught to me by my climbing mentor, John Grier... I have not used it much, but saw him use it many times.. The bigger a piece is, the more force is needed to get it into motion. So anything big is going need more pull than you can get by hand.

 

I have thought about using this technique... shall we call it a "side swing throw" by loading up a dynamic pull line, as you describe, but have yet to find the need.. Probably better to give it a try when NOT NEEDED, just to see how much force gets what kind of reaction.. I'll try to get it on tape..

 

So would you say that you have found a way to calculate how far a section will "jump" if it is X size and X height etc ? the only reason i ask is because i feel that in order to use such a methoud i woul want to be sure exactly how far a section will "jump" .

[butler]

I seam to be missing something....why all the hate......

[dadio]

As with most aspects of falling and rigging, it is accomplished more by feel than calculation.. That "feel" is best achieved with a full understanding of the physics and ALL the factors involved.. which include, the weight of the piece, the lean of the piece, the amount of pull (force, momentum, and acceleration), the placement of of the pull line in the tree, the direction and angle of the pull, the dynamic properties of the line, the amount of line in the system, the unlimited different options in cutting a notch and backcut (and most importantly the depth and width of the notch), the height of clearance . All of these things must be considered..

 

There are just too many factors to develop into some kind of practical calculation..

However, its not that hard to develop a feel for all the above with a little practice and experimentation. I have also found the use of slow motion video helpful in understanding how a piece moves off the cut..

 

In this case, I wanted to take more of the top, so that the one lower back-leaning lead came out with the top.... BUT I JUST KNEW, that if I cut that top that low, it would not leave enough height to provide the clearance needed.

 

In the end one of the major factors is left to the driver/vehicle, so you need to be able to trust him..We did not pre-tension the pull line.. there was a little slack left in, with approx 150' of dynamic 1/2" true blue. The top was fairly well balanced with a slight side lean away from me.. I cut the backcut until the kerf started to ever so slightly open, then called for the pull...By the time the truck took the slack and the stretch out of the line, there was enough momentum to get the piece to move just enough faster than it would have naturally, to clear the maple and the shrub. I only wish I had a dyno to show that with enough stretch in the line and enough line in the system, there is very little shock loading, and therefore a remarkably small amount of force on the line, which I would estimate to be less than 20% tensile strength.

 

What makes this sort of thing fun for me, is to see if it will work as planned. However there are just too many factors to be absolutely certain. I would rarely take that kind of chance with valuable objects at risk. In this case I was certain that there the Jap maple would be cleared, but the shrub was 50-50.. I would not even have done that if I didn't have those padding logs set up. They were at least going to protect the base of the srub from total destruction.. If the top sustained damage, it could be pruned and the shrub would certainly recover completely in time. That was a tolerable risk.. It worked.. made a good video, and was fun... NO big deal!

[Le Sanglier]

As with most aspects of falling and rigging, it is accomplished more by feel than calculation.. That "feel" is best achieved with a full understanding of the physics and ALL the factors involved.. which include, the weight of the piece, the lean of the piece, the amount of pull (force, momentum, and acceleration), the placement of of the pull line in the tree, the direction and angle of the pull, the dynamic properties of the line, the amount of line in the system, the unlimited different options in cutting a notch and backcut (and most importantly the depth and width of the notch), the height of clearance . All of these things must be considered..

 

There are just too many factors to develop into some kind of practical calculation..

However, its not that hard to develop a feel for all the above with a little practice and experimentation. I have also found the use of slow motion video helpful in understanding how a piece moves off the cut..

 

In this case, I wanted to take more of the top, so that the one lower back-leaning lead came out with the top.... BUT I JUST KNEW, that if I cut that top that low, it would not leave enough height to provide the clearance needed.

 

In the end one of the major factors is left to the driver/vehicle, so you need to be able to trust him..We did not pre-tension the pull line.. there was a little slack left in, with approx 150' of dynamic 1/2" true blue. The top was fairly well balanced with a slight side lean away from me.. I cut the backcut until the kerf started to ever so slightly open, then called for the pull...By the time the truck took the slack and the stretch out of the line, there was enough momentum to get the piece to move just enough faster than it would have naturally, to clear the maple and the shrub. I only wish I had a dyno to show that with enough stretch in the line and enough line in the system, there is very little shock loading, and therefore a remarkably small amount of force on the line, which I would estimate to be less than 20% tensile strength.

 

What makes this sort of thing fun for me, is to see if it will work as planned. However there are just too many factors to be absolutely certain. I would rarely take that kind of chance with valuable objects at risk. In this case I was certain that there the Jap maple would be cleared, but the shrub was 50-50.. I would not even have done that if I didn't have those padding logs set up. They were at least going to protect the base of the srub from total destruction.. If the top sustained damage, it could be pruned and the shrub would certainly recover completely in time. That was a tolerable risk.. It worked.. made a good video, and was fun... NO big deal!

 

Fair enough, thanks for taking the effort:thumbup:

[Pat Ferrett]

I seam to be missing something....why all the hate......

 

The trouble is Matt IMO!- There has been a shift in the tools and techniques used by people in our trade over the last 70 years and the ability to work from ladders, free climb, fell, shock load etc is being lost and forgotten.

When somebody like Daddio tries to re kindle some of these lost arts he is looked down apon by alot of our generation as reckless because he could have used other means or its not the familiar approach

 

My question to the doubters is have they ever given any thought to how tree surgery was undertaken before we had all the gizmos that we have now become dependant on ?

 

I have had the pleasure of working with a few real old timers and the skill and understanding of trees and timber humbling