Nptc

[RPA]

so let me get this right in 10 days you could train 4 new climbers to climb trees use chainsaws prune trees and use lowering devices and ropes and go straight out into the industry as fully qualified climber

you must be a really good instructor

 

I agree that it would be good to have an option to do then all at one time. But as Bob says not a cat in hells chance on that time scale. Some people on these courses are sooooo bad you would not believe it.

One thing i do think is that people should actually have to pass training to a given standard before they can apply for NPTC assesment. The assesments are limited but the trainers should have had enough of an insight into competance after spending several days, not hrs, with a candidate.

Whatever, no system will ever make everyone happy

[RPA]

you just mentioned something there that Id quite like cleared up once and for all.

 

CS31, to fell and process (or whatever the wording) 'small trees'.... and then some subtext about trees less than or up to diameter of the guide bar.

 

then 32 'medium trees' up to 2x guide bar length or whatever,

 

then 33 is up to 3x or something.

 

 

now... Ive always understood that the small, medium, large had little consequence, It was merely a way of classifying a set of techniques, and as such a 3 1/2 foot diameter tree could be felled by an operative with CS31 so long as he used a saw with bar length at least 3 1/2 foot, as he would be using one of the basic techniques. and so on and so forth with the other certifications. This would make a lot of sense.

 

I have certainly felled trees a lot larger than 15 inches using those basic cuts and larger saws, and find the process little different.

 

I was also under the impression that the whole 15 inch basis was for no other reason than 15inch being a bar size taken by a lot of saws, and availability of training and assessment trees for CS32 and 33 if the bar size were larger, would be next to none, and a waste of fantastic trees. Again, pointing toward 'size' being immaterial, and 'technique' being the item actually being classified.

 

clarification would be appreciated

 

Jim

 

Think it goes by max tree size now, not times bar. eg mediun (32) up to 900mm diam or sometin like that.

[Arbocop]

blimy wow so many questions, the thing i whant to reinforce is that nptc assessments following a recognised training programme egLantra-awards is a good way to go but not the only way, the hse prefered proof, it is a BASIC MINIMUM STANDARD

[Arbocop]

OPPPS WHAT HAPPEND THERE ahhh caps loc sorry.

 

so the question about 31/32/33 at this time done by size up tp 15" 15-30" >30" the methods for 32 and 33 very similar just a bigger mess if you get it wrong and a little outh stuff too.

 

so the question is how big is it, not what is it like in ref to the size of your guid bar. if your stuff talks in that way it may be the older certs or just a description of what you do not the size of the tree.

 

now it is fair to say that all the 31 32 33 are done with c.15" bars and with a really big stick we lat u have a couple of extra inches, and this is aguably the failing of the system, becaus with the exception of felling standing stemms there is no formal process to look at folks who use bigger saws, also some may say thay are happy with it that way, but how many are using saws bigger than 15" that you have not fully risk assessed against staff competence and phisical ability to use bigger saws???

 

any whay to the question about the crane, my biggest worry in that situation would be was it alift or hire??? if the latter was it planed and managed by a BSI competent person????

 

i think the answer to that enigma though is asking what you need to be competent to do it?? what information, instruction, training andsupervision, is the guy who fitted the chains competent???

 

and to be honest no cource prepaires you for crane work that really is one of those things where you need to interface with a good driver, and make some boobs learn as you go.

 

any way late now and prob not making much sence

 

chat soon

[Tim Williams]

IT'S NOT LAW!!!!!!!!

 

correct there is no legal requirement to hold nptc certificates however if you are new to the industry then it is sensible to get such qualifications, this is due to the fact that if there is an accident HSE will use expert witnesses in any court proceedings, if you have years of experience without incident then you maybe deemed competent and therefore less accountable however if you are new with little experience then you could find yourself in a lot more trouble.

[treequip]

correct there is no legal requirement to hold nptc certificates however if you are new to the industry then it is sensible to get such qualifications, this is due to the fact that if there is an accident HSE will use expert witnesses in any court proceedings, if you have years of experience without incident then you maybe deemed competent and therefore less accountable however if you are new with little experience then you could find yourself in a lot more trouble.

 

This is correct, there is no law requiring proof of training or competence but the HSE do say that anyone operating a saw should be adequately trained and competent which makes some form of training and assessment mandatory.

 

NPTC has its critics but it is the market leader unless anyone fancies re inventing the wheel?

 

Andy

[Leyburn Lad]

so let me get this right in 10 days you could train 4 new climbers to climb trees use chainsaws prune trees and use lowering devices and ropes and go straight out into the industry as fully qualified climber

you must be a really good instructor

 

I shoudn't post so late then i could get it all out of my head what I was going to say. My Next Gripe with NPTC is the 4 to 1 set up, surely taking 4 people and starting from scratch say on cs 30,31 is a task to far and would be better in my opinion if either 3 to 1 or better still 2 to 1.

 

nothing to do with the course you were running for us Bob, but 4 guys from a certain REC nearby were on there basic felling cs31 and the feed back was that two were as thick as two short planks so the other two suffered in not getting as much put across to them, this resulted in one of them failing the assesment.

[bob]

I shoudn't post so late then i could get it all out of my head what I was going to say. My Next Gripe with NPTC is the 4 to 1 set up, surely taking 4 people and starting from scratch say on cs 30,31 is a task to far and would be better in my opinion if either 3 to 1 or better still 2 to 1.

 

nothing to do with the course you were running for us Bob, but 4 guys from a certain REC nearby were on there basic felling cs31 and the feed back was that two were as thick as two short planks so the other two suffered in not getting as much put across to them, this resulted in one of them failing the assesment.

so do you think 2 to 1 would be better then although the cost of the course would double and what if the other guy was thick as wood you would be really arsed then

and i only assess not instruct so i am not biased

and yes it is quite common to get 2 lads better than the other 2 but it also common to get a course full of nuppets

[Arborlord]

Well based on writtles 4 to 1 thats £3440 for 5 days work cs30-31.

 

I think thats taking the piss but hey greedy trainers are nothing new.

 

Im sure they have costs but im also sure there making a killing robbing us.

 

For what they charge we should be a 1 on 1 trainer for the week.

[Lee Winger]

So no NPTC, then who do you go to as an employer, with a duty of care to train and certify your staff? Or do you just pass them a saw and hope for the best? What if you are a contractor who has to demonstate his competence before he commences work?

 

As for the money, you will find that a small portion goes to NPTC...........

 

City and Guilds or NVQ, training is training in the eyes of HSEa, been told so by the horses mouth..