Good wage for a groundie/Inexperienced climber?

[skyhuck]

I think it's very unprofessional to ask prices, your business should reflect your costings not someone else's.

 

Are your prices governed by someone else's overheads ??

 

You as a professional should be able to work out prices for yourself not rely on follow my leader with someone else's.

 

That is probably one of the reasons prices are being driven low, each lowering prices to match the next.

 

I have never asked anyones price or asked a customer. If I'm getting too much work I'm too cheap, if I'm quoting loads and getting none, I'm too dear,

 

Hardly rocket science guys

 

Not the way I do it!

 

There is more than one way to skin a cat!

 

I believe that every job has a price, the trick is to try and work out what that price is.

 

With the equipment I have if I simply worked out my costs and added a wage I would under price a lot of my work.

 

Most of my competition use tranys and small chippers, so when I look at a job I try to work out how long it would take with their gear and price accordingly, I then endeavor to do the job in much less time than it would take them and thus make a healthy profit.

 

Asking customers what other prices they got is all part of keeping track of the "going rate" so to speak.

 

If you quote for United Utility's wether you win the job or not you get a break down of all the other prices tendered, they don't tell you who the contractors are they are simple called contractor "a"or"b"and so on. Are they unprofessional?

 

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the AA recommend that when you tender for council work if you don't win the work you should ask for feed back.

 

As for this driving down prices, it is just as likely to help prices rise, if you win the job and find you were £100 less than the other prices you are going to raise your prices, well I am!!

[Dean Lofthouse]

Utilities and councils give feedback to help themselves not you.

 

If you are underpriced, you will find you'll get nearly every job you quote for, so you up upping your prices to reduce the workload till it's comfortable for you.

 

I know exactly my costings per day, what it costs me in overheads. I just add onto that what I want to earn in a day and I do not move from that, if someone else wants to work for peanuts let them.

 

You cannot price from someone elses quotes, simply because of the unusual and expensive kit you have, I would think your setup would be more suited to site clearance and big roadside takedowns. In that case you would be competing against similar companies with similar kit, not some small setup with chipper and transit, your day rate should be unique to you.

[conkers]

Utilities and councils give feedback to help themselves not you.

 

If you are underpriced, you will find you'll get nearly every job you quote for, so you up upping your prices to reduce the workload till it's comfortable for you.

 

I know exactly my costings per day, what it costs me in overheads. I just add onto that what I want to earn in a day and I do not move from that, if someone else wants to work for peanuts let them.

 

You cannot price from someone elses quotes, simply because of the unusual and expensive kit you have, I would think your setup would be more suited to site clearance and big roadside takedowns. In that case you would be competing against similar companies with similar kit, not some small setup with chipper and transit, your day rate should be unique to you.

 

 

I agree but by the same token, it is no good having a mog with a massive greedy chipper if your local market is thin, lift and reduce!

Big kit looks good but you have to cut your cloth to suit your market which sometimes means asking what the other quotes were after you get or don't get the work.

It does not make a lot of sense anyway. Prices are all over the place, except one chap over here who is consistantly cheaper than everone... by a long way.

[skyhuck]

Utilities and councils give feedback to help themselves not you.

 

 

Not necessarily!

 

If I discover I was £1000 less than the other prices I'll raise my price next time!!!.......... I'd be a fool not to!!!

[Dean Lofthouse]

Not necessarily!

 

If I discover I was £1000 less than the other prices I'll raise my price next time!!!.......... I'd be a fool not to!!!

 

If your that way out then you need to get someone in to price for you who knows what they're doing .

 

It doesn't matter if you were so far out as long as you are covering your costs, your wages and your depreciation. Any more than that is just greed.

 

Conkers, if a chap is consistently cheaper than everyone else, it doesn't take long before all his gear is clapped out and he can't afford to replace or repair it, by you following his price, you are going to end up the same way.

 

Your prices should be unique to your setup, I could trance all over skyhucks prices on domestic work, but he wil trance all over me on roadside and clearance.

 

If you cannot work out your own costings then you shouldn't really be self employed or running a business imo

[skyhuck]

 

It doesn't matter if you were so far out as long as you are covering your costs, your wages and your depreciation. Any more than that is just greed.

 

Your prices should be unique to your setup, I could trance all over skyhucks prices on domestic work, but he wil trance all over me on roadside and clearance.

 

If you cannot work out your own costings then you shouldn't really be self employed or running a business imo

 

 

Utter rubbish,IMO.

 

Following your logic, Cd's would cost only a few pence as that is all they cost to make!

 

Why do song writers continue to make money on songs they wrote after they have "covered their cost's"? Greedy sods I suppose.

 

So Dean once you've paid your mortgage off you'll be be dropping your rates?As your costs will be less.

 

I take my costs plus a wage as my starting point and try to get more if I can! Not by ripping people off but by trying to do the job for the same price or a little less than my competitors, but doing it in a more efficient manner and in less time, thus bringing down my costs and pushing up my profit!!

 

But hey you do it your way Dean and I'll do it mine!

 

But you will never see me posting about how bad the money is in our industry. As I find that the money is just fine:001_tongue:

[Dean Lofthouse]

Cd's cost a few pence to make but cost lots in royalties.

 

Song writers don't provide a one off service.

 

My mortagage is not a busines overhead.

 

If you want then, you come on domestic jobs with me and bring your Mog, trailer and winch. Dragging all the waste through ginnels down paths and over flower beds, I'll have my £8K landy and £18K chipper.

 

You have your £45K mog and god knows what cost of trailer and crane, plus chipper £75K ??

 

You will not do the job a minute quicker than me.

 

All I am saying without getting snotty, is that your equipment is more suited to specific jobs where more money can be made but not to other jobs.

 

If you only ever did ball ache domestic jobs your crane mog and trailer are there for nothing, but you'd have to charge the same as me and you'd end up not covering overheads.

 

You can't possibly price the same or lower than me and make money on domestic.

 

You have specific overheads so have to target more profitable bigger jobs where you can save time with the equipment you have.

 

We target different markets Dave, so you are right, what works for you works for you mate.

 

Your obviously successful at what you do, but I'm hardly struggling am I, I keep my overheads low with smaller equipment to suit the market I'm aiming at.

 

It doesn't alter the fact that IMO asking what someone else quoted is so hit and miss it's laughable

[skyhuck]

If your that way out then you need to get someone in to price for you who knows what they're doing .

 

 

Dean make up your mind, how could I be "way out"? as all firms have "individual" price's!

 

And you would never know if you were "way out" now would you?

 

And how could any one "help" me with my price's? remember all I need to do if add up my costs plus a wage! its easy!

[skyhuck]

If I had followed your business model Dean, I would still be using a LDV tipper and a tow along chipper!

 

How do share holder make any money Dean??

 

If you work harder or are more skilled and faster than others should you not make more money??

[Dean Lofthouse]

This is getting silly now, your just twisting and using part statements.

 

Like you said, if your happy the way you are then stick with it mate.

 

Just one example Dave.

 

I used to recondition and sell, garden machinery, power tools and generators.

 

On a genny, I used to replace the rotor bearing, brush pack, fully service the engine using fully synthetic oil, set the speed using a Hertz meter for accuracy.

 

I would then go on markets with an exhibition unit selling these recons. There would be some scratter two units along selling a generator in shite state for the same price.

 

Who is giving the most value or is one of us ripping off the customer.

 

How can he justify the price.

 

I've had lots of business's one of my first was a Kitchen manufacturing and fitting business partnership, I was 24 and had a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow 2 with private plate TYB2 , a Porsche 911 and a brand new renault 21 turbo all through the company, we employed about 15 staff. That business went down after 4 years because of my partner and bad busness ethic , I/we worked like a dog to fit kitchens for customers who had paid deposits and lwould have lost their money, only because I have high morals, the busness failed with no outstanding debt.

 

I learnt a lot about business from there.

 

I run my business from past experience and always have a backup plan, if the shite hits the fan I have lots of assets to sell.

 

But all this sillyness has come from me saying I would not ask a customer what other quotes they have had, and my reasoning comes from my kitchen business. My service was unique to me and my company and what other people had quoted had no bearing whatsoever on what product "I" was offering, unless of course the other person was offering the exactly the same product at exactly the same standard of workmanship, produced with exactly the same materials and equipment.

 

So let me just reiterate the original point.

 

"I have never, in all my working life, asked anyone what they have been quoted and I never will" I am not interested in what someone else can do the job for, I'm interested in what I can do the job for.

 

I have everything built in to my pricing system, income tax, chains, saw and equipment wear and tear, vehicle depreciation, fuel, groundy, insurance, office costs, tiolet roll for the office everything.

 

Has every other quote taken into consideration these things. If one of my saws wears out, I go buy another, I don't even ask the price, I just buy it, I've got the funds in place for equipment breakdown.

 

How many people on here work from day to day and would be stuffed if their chipper blew up, come on be honest.

 

...and thats the sort of business ethics you would be following up saying I'll match or beat that price by a tenner.

 

Please take all I have said above tongue in cheek Dave, I'm typing this with a rye grin on my face, no malice intended. You have obviously got a busness that works for the market you are aiming at and if you did follow my busness model and ended up with an LDV and tow behind chipper then that model would be aimed at the domestic market and an LDV/tow behind combi is just fine for that mate